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#DonTheStash

what was the long term wayne brittain / davo parkin leadership program???

nah... thats ridiculous as well...

we just havent been a long trm planning club
we didnt even have a fb after sos.. we got oreilly

the whole club is short term bandaid fix

had nothing to do with pagan and the tools he had at his disposal.. pardon the pun
beaumont
campo
kouta

all were unwilling to get out of their comfort zones
all unwilling to put the club first
all were there for themselves


even fev had less self first than thise blokes

its the perfect microbiological culture.. and its existed for way before pagan came.

as a matter of fact... an intellectual pygmy like ratten tried to create even greater conditions for this culture to exist within .. he called it "the carlton swagger"..
he had a caste system of players.. the top were very well looked after...and nurtured a real sense of entitlement within that group.
of course leaders are not found from that kind of environment...

earlier players would be looked after by the club for achievement
we suddenly found ourselves looking after individuals from the club who wernt achieving
rewarding mediocrity....

i agree with ur stevie johnson geelong example
were not geelong

they have been at the top of their game for a decade.

were just mediocre and slipping.....

but we must all see whats on the horizon .. as some blokes will tell us....

love that bit.....
"the horizon" the marker that you can never actually reach....

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

If we cast our memories back to the pre judd era, we were bereft of tallent to back up the low draft picks we had picked up.
here is the list that played games in 07


Cain Ackland 20 4 2 92 96 9.4 63 19 295...................... DELISTED/MOVED ON
26 Joe Anderson 5 0 0 13 17 6 7 13 0......................... TOO OLD TO FIGURE IN ANY PREMIERSHIP
21 Mark Austin 1 0 0 1 3 4 2 0 0............................... TRADED
31 Jordan Bannister 12 6 3 91 67 13.2 63 27 0
7 Adam Bentick 20 5 5 173 193 18.3 65 121 1
19 Eddie Betts 17 21 11 104 94 11.9 44 66 1
13 Luke Blackwell 11 1 5 88 85 15.7 45 26 0
18 Paul Bower 10 1 0 63 66 12.9 45 18 2
44 Andrew Carrazzo 22 8 6 287 282 25.9 114 101 23
28 Cameron Cloke 6 3 1 29 21 8.3 22 12 60
25 Brendan Fevola 19 59 41 160 48 11.0 100 29 10
14 Brad Fisher 19 39 15 175 71 14.0 137 27 0
4 Bryce Gibbs 22 5 6 166 120 13 94 62 3
16 Shaun Grigg 5 0 1 28 31 11.8 17 3 0
22 Shaun Hampson 2 1 0 6 5 5.5 5 0 16
23 Adam Hartlett 4 1 3 15 14 7.2 12 5 0
33 Ryan Houlihan 21 8 9 297 134 20.5 88 33 2
38 Ryan Jackson 7 3 0 55 53 15.4 37 20 0
40 Michael Jamison 5 0 1 28 25 10.6 11 13 0
5 Josh Kennedy 13 6 5 57 40 7.5 50 27 40
43 Anthony Koutoufides 11 6 2 81 97 16.2 29 27 4
12 Matthew Lappin 18 21 12 162 95 14.3 92 25 1
3 Marc Murphy 22 10 17 264 130 17.9 91 64 0
17 Setanta Ó hAilpín 22 13 3 124 107 10.5 62 40 97
2 Jordan Russell 18 3 4 98 91 10.5 71 56 0
9 Jason Saddington 12 4 0 75 72 12.2 76 14 0
26 Heath Scotland 22 4 7 378 197 26.1 155 52 10
6 Kade Simpson 22 17 12 281 130 18.7 103 64 4
24 Nick Stevens 3 2 4 38 23 20.3 11 9 0
32 Bret Thornton 18 0 1 175 91 14.8 94 17 4
30 Jarrad Waite 22 28 15 206 117 14.7 111 58 2
1 Andrew Walker 19 10 7 252 139 20.6 91 48 3
8 Lance Whitnall 15 19 16 148 54 13.5 86 15 22
34 Simon Wiggins 13 1 2 66 90 12 55 24 2
41 Ross Young 6 3 3 41 27 11.3 19 19 0

I think we all forget that the original problem we had was the Elliot eras philosophy to keep topping up. This led to an ageing list, that once its experienced players retired en masse , left a huge experience hole. Quite simply we were trying to plug too many gaps all at the same time, and in combination with the draft penalties we had no means to do this.
Consequently we ended up with a list of gap fillers , speculative trades, and older recycled players. Hindsite of course says that we played the recruiting game wrong up to the 08 season which is when Judd arrived.
Remember the culture arguments at the time? We desperately needed leadership and culture to return to the club. It was argued that Judd provided both in spades. You have no argument from me that he provided both and it was the correct decision to bring him to the club. But that is where we lost the plot. Up to 08 there was a legitimate reason that the list was struggling as outlined above. Simply it was not possible to develop and recruit players in an ideal environment, we had too many holes to fill, and too many young players , that were crucified by being forced to play too early.
Post 08 we had a core of experience that was able to at least equip ourselves reasonably on game day, the younger players if they were up to it, could be eased in more slowly. But the problem was we recruited the following


2008
Rhys O'Keeffe 3
National 6 80 Caleb Tiller 0
Pre-Season 1 4 Christopher Johnson 15
Rookie 1 6 Jeff Garlett Carlton 100
Rookie 2 22 Luke Stanton 0
Rookie 3 37 Greg Bentley 5
Rookie 4 51 Darren Pfeiffer 0
Rookie 5 65 Lachlan Hill 0
Rookie 6 76 Sam Jacobs

2009
Type Round Pick Player Current Team Games Since Drafted *
National 1 12 Kane Lucas Carlton 36
National 3 43 Marcus Davies 17
National 4 59 Rohan Kerr 0
National 5 72 Rookie Promotion Sam Jacobs Adelaide 13
National 6 83 Rookie Promotion Aaron Joseph 50
Rookie 1 15 Jaryd Cachia Carlton 14
Rookie 2 31 Joseph Dare 0
Rookie 3 44 Levi Casboult Carlton 17
Rookie 4 56 Simon White Carlton 27
Rookie 5 66 Joshua Donaldson 0
Rookie 6 73 International Zach Tuohy Carlton 56

2010

Type Round Pick Player Current Team Games Since Drafted *
National 1 18 Matthew Watson Carlton 17
National 2 34 Patrick McCarthy 1
National 2 42 Luke Mitchell 1
National 4 67 Andrew McInnes Carlton 17
National 4 70 Nicholas Duigan 43
National 5 85 Rookie Promotion Jeff Garlett Carlton 70
National 6 99 Rookie Promotion David Ellard Carlton 34
National 7 108 Rookie Promotion Simon White Carlton 21
Rookie 1 18 Edward Curnow Carlton 53
Rookie 2 35 Rhys O'Keeffe 3
Rookie 3 51 Wayde Twomey 2
Rookie 4 66 Mitchell Carter 0
Rookie 5 78 Blake Bray

2011

Type Round Pick Player Current Team Games Since Drafted *
National 1 22 Joshua Bootsma Carlton 14
National 2 44 Sam Rowe Carlton 11
National 3 62 Father/Son Dylan Buckley Carlton 2
Rookie 1 14 Tom Bell Carlton 18
Rookie 2 32 Nick Heyne 0
Rookie 3 50 Frazer Dale 2
Rookie 4 67 Matthew Lodge 0

2012
National 1 11 Troy Menzel Carlton 9
National 2 35 Tom Temay Carlton 0
National 3 54 Nicholas Graham Carlton 2
National 5 89 Rookie Promotion Levi Casboult Carlton 11
National 6 102 Rookie Promotion Zach Tuohy Carlton 26
Rookie 1 9 Jaryd Cachia Carlton 14
Rookie 2 23 Andrew Collins 0

2013
National 1 13 Patrick Cripps Carlton 0
National 3 39 Cameron Giles Carlton 0
National 3 51 Nick Holman Carlton 0
National 6 89 Edward Curnow Carlton 2
National 7 94 Tom Bell Carlton 2
Rookie 1 12 Luke Reynolds Carlton 0
Rookie 2 28 Cameron Wood Carlton 0
Rookie 3 43 Blaine Johnson Carlton 0
Rookie 3 53 Heath Scotland Carlton 0
Rookie 3 60 Ciaran Sheehan Carlton 0
Rookie 3 64 Ciaran Byrne Carlton 0

The Judd era did not capitalise on his and other low draft pick arrivals because of complacency post 2008 in recruiting. But at the time it was definitely the right thing to do, bringing leadership and cultural change to the club.

I can't work out your formatting on the mobile, Padre, but looking at that 2007 team I reckon they would probs beat the 2014 team.

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"In better news for Blues fans, Jarrad Waite was not named on the club's injury list."

Sad reading padre...

Fact is, this wouldn't be a discussion point if we had done a better job at drafting, recruiting and especially player development pre and post the Judd deal.

Getting Judd was a no brainer... iirc there were about 5 clubs chasing him at the time?

People fret about the loss of JK... my recollection is that he wasn't all that valued by our fans at the time... comes back to shit player development I suppose. He's turned out good but hardly an irreplaceable player.

Loss of picks 3 and 20... hands up all those that have faith in WH to have utilized them so effectively? Such a wonderful track record he has.

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“I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers that can't be questioned.” ― Richard Feynman

He was a second year KP forward

The same nuffers went on to can Henderson too.

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"You are being watched. The government has a secret system. A machine that spies on you every hour of every day. I know because I built it." - Finch

My recollection was a lot of people wanted to keep him and a lot new he would be a good player at WCE.

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#NewBlues beginning 25th August 2015

That is a good point Mr S...

but the point is Brittain and Parko NEVER threatened the continuity of the leadership culture at Carlton, something that continued uninterrupted from the Barrassi/Harris days.

The Pagan/Elshaugh monarchy had almost completely dismantled it by 2004

Well at least Micky Matryn got to his 300, with 13 games and then left.

At least something positive came out of the Pagan years (and Fev of course - brilliant move when Pagan decided to play him as a full forward - absolute coaching brilliance)

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Vice President, International Extreme Sarcasm Society (IESS)

drafting selections etc must be coupled by good strong development within the club

see cats, swans..

and lets not forget those critical ingredients, leadership, honesty

How do the players stack up in these areas? And why>?

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Vice President, International Extreme Sarcasm Society (IESS)

We gave away too much for Judd.

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1945 - End of round 3 Carlton was last.

Last round Carlton made the final four for the first time.

Eventual premiers.

That's what I'm talking about!