I don't blame Pagan much. Elliott is the one, and Parkin can take his share. Pagan had absolutely nothing to work with. His biggest sin was bringing in just enough journeymen to finish a seriously creditable 10th in 2004, thereby costing us 2 of Deledio, Franklin, Griffin, Roughead (and...cough... Tambling).

Hoping this doesnt just revert into the usual. Lets try to keep it positive. Concentrate on proactive suggestions , not the usual where we have gone wrong. Its irrelevant we cant rewrite history. But what we can do is put each foot forward from now on in the right direction. If this means listening to a malthouse or who ever then that the way we need to go.
Atm i have faith in malthouse. Compared to pagan, who in all honesty got served a raw deal , but also had only really proved himself in one scenario ie the carey roos, malthouse has shown ability under many scenarios with different clubs. We need to recognise that it takes time. Can we stop using the freo example...they were a list cherry ripe to take the next step with the right coach. Enter Lyon. Not all turn arounds can be so quick. We need patients and leadership. Period.

GET PATIENTS.

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Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience!!!

After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says W T F .........
Visit http://fromthemoshpit.com/

We'll all be patients if next year goes pear shaped ...

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I just want my old club back ... (edit) maybe I have!

Some good points and I think Lyon is a fantastic coach. It makes a difference.

The issue with MM coming in is he has nothing like the list Freo has or the development, recruiting or fitness staff. He has also been able to go and get the type of players he needs. He has been able to attract them.

In these areas we have been absolutely pathetic. The recruitment of Judd, Murphy & Gibbs has papered over numerous issues.

I am confident MM can turn things around but other areas need significant change. What absolutely astounds me is after more than a decade of failure the same people still retain their positions within the club. Can someone explain why?

Cordy has made our players look like Jenny Craig after photos. We carry no size or power. Buttifant will make a difference.

Development has been a joke. How many players have actually stepped up and improved to any significant level. I am hoping Wiley with the addition of some others can make a difference. I hope.

Recruitment has been a disaster by any measurement. How can Hughes be demoted, still retain a position, and be replaced by his 2IC who was involved during the same period?? We then go and employ Luke Williams from Geelong to do what? What is his authority, if he has a significant say how can he trust the previous regime who are still there? All we seem to do in this department is shuffle the deck chairs. They are the joke of the AFL and as such so are we.

Imagine the meetings between Hughes, Rogers & Williams and the liniment sniffers. Williams would be thinking in 2009 you picked Lucas, Davies & Kerr!!!! We picked Menzel, Duncan, Christensen & Vardy essentially after your picks. How can I trust your judgement?

Also, a dedicated List Manager would help. How can you have a committee? This is a football club not a government. How about a specialist focused on such an important role reporting to the board?

We are 2-3 years away minimum from developing a list to challenge for top 4. That's if we get things right from now. How can we be confident with the current group?

In any serious business these decisions would not even be considered. To be the best you are either good enough or you are gone. How hard is it.

I was so hopeful when Pratt came in and said we will get the "BEST" in every area. WTF happened???

Kernahan & Swann need to take responsibility. Either the tough and proper decisions are made or they should go. Unfortunately it is hard to judge and make decisions when you are in the middle of it.

IMO we need someone independent from outside to come in and review. NOW. If we don't it will be more of the same.

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#NewBlues beginning 25th August 2015

Padre not being negative just saw two young guns playing well in PF that were traded in and wanted to go to other clubs rather than Carlton
With the state of our list we need these sort of players and need to be the preferred club for these players
Both Gunston and caddy would improve our team and seek to rectify some of our deficiencies
Got to get better at trading and free agency 9th and 10 th the last 2 years but see no signs of us improving in trading and free agency
Maybe this year will be different
Last free trade period and free agency period was really poor by the club and did impact directly on our performance in the season

Frank, hopefully our leaders wont buy into the free agency too much. It is but one part of the puzzle. Its also the quick fix, lazy way if we are not careful( sound familiar).
I want some accountability within the development team.
IS he good enough... Yes/no if no then have the balls to admit that they got that pick wrong then move on.
Does he have the right attitude to improve yes/no....if not , and if he isn't already at afl standard, then move him on

Its quite simple if you are ruthless. But to be ruthless you need to have ability to judge and back yourself...rightly or wrongly. Instead we have had ditherers, procrastinators, who have dined out on some fluky rookie picks to justify their existence. Kicking the can down the road until it becomes more than obvious that a player doesn't have the right stuff, is what has confined us to being mediocre. I believe the buzz word is " list clogger" .

The biggest excuse we seem to be served up is injuries and lack of preseason. All valid excuses per se. But i get the feeling that that it has been used as an excuse (for the lack if a players development) too much. Good players just find a way to get on the park, they cope with injuries they dont use it as an excuse. It can be a sign of mental weakness, something that comes to the fore on game day.

I am not talking here about season ending knee or other major injuries, more referring to the fact that many if our moderate injuries seem to drag on from the stated 3-4 weeks into 10-12 weeks. Perhaps its a case that for some, that the contract payments are enough reward in themselves, that deep down they know that they are not good enough and dont see the need to bust a gut to get back on the park . Good players on the other hand, cant stand being out of the side. They strive on the mental stimulation of elite competition and see it as a failure and a dent in their reputation, if they are not out there competing.

I have faith in mm to be decisive. That he has more football knowledge and intuition than most. I might not agree with for example his decision on Laidler, but I am comforted by his decisiveness and conviction. His LEADERSHIP. I will respect his decision, because i know that he will have already challenged Laidler and found that he has not responded the way he wanted. THAT is what we want and need. Someone with a vision, backed up with experience and ability, that is decisive and not afraid to be judged.it may not be the right call on Laidler, but I will know that overall mm will get most of these calls right......AT LEAST HE IS MAKING BLOODY CALLS.