not sure if boyd is going to be 2 times better than riewoldt or nic nat.. and theyre not winning flags....

by 2 times better.. he have to be sooooo flower freaky he needs to mark and kick everything.... through the big sticks...

kick through the big sticks eh??? hmmmmmm i wish....

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

No, it's not 'all on him'. at least not in my view.

But if he doesn't lift his output between now and the end of the season from 'occasionally nice/great effort' to 'genuine and consistent difference maker who opposition teams need to put in serious planning time towards', why are you so keen to keep him for Boyd?

I'm starting to think we know what we have in Kreuzer, and it's what we've got now, give or take 5-10%. Would be absolutely DELIGHTED if he threw that back in my face and smeared (free range) eggs all over it for good measure. I doubt it though.

if we know what we have... and its no good.. why dont they take a pick and lucas???.. or a pick and hampson??

why is everyone else that dumb that they wlll take a guy we know cant cut it... but dont take one of the other guys that cant cut it???

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Brilliant !!!

Kreuz gets his say, but if the club insists, how would he feel if he stayed - ie against the wishes of the club??? Would be a weird feeling.
I suspect Kennedy was reluctant to leave when the Judd deal came about, but in the end WCE got him over the line, even though he wanted to stay in Melbourne and not return to his native home.

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For some silly reason, you people want to assassinate him, and it's just rubbish. You people. All of you, ALL of you!

1) Kreuzer might not be a star of the game, but there is a chance he could be. I may personally feel that he isn't, but I am more than willing to concede there's still a very vigorous debate to be had on that point.

2) hammer and Lucas both will most definitely not be stars of the game. There is no debate to be had on that point. Lucas' ceiling is a passable contributor. Hammers ceiling is serviceable forward/ruck.

Those two players are the classic $1 doesn't equal 4 quarters players. We would get laughed at if they were offered as a part of the deal. Kreuzer probably wouldn't get laughed at. They might not be interested but they wouldn't laugh at us for throwing the name out here.

The Club's approach of list management must be guided by a clear and honest assessment as to where we think the Club is from a Premiership.

Once this decision is made, we go from there.

After seeing Collingwood get a first round pick for Wellingham...anything is possible. There are some clubs willing to trade over the odds, unfortunately recent history shows that we tend to be on the wrong side.

Cool, coz we will need Gibbs to play ruck, as the other two are shit .

What are we trying to do here, win a premiership or simply not look silly? It's too late for the latter, been there, done that.

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Just because I'm offended, doesn't mean I'm wrong.

Nope if senior coach doesn't want you why would you stay

..what MM says will go, naturally.. ..but what MM has said, and done, is say publicly/in print that Krooz and Judd are the only players on the list that don't have to prove themselves to him.. ..and he's played Krooz as 1st ruck when all rucks are fit.. ..he's rushed krooz back into the team a week early cos he wants him in the team even when there wasn't a 'real position' for him to be had that week [knockers 1st ruck, hampson fwd/relief ruck] so i think we know what MM thinks about krooz..

..remember, MM doesn't trade the players he 'locks in' to the side, and the way krooz goes about his footy, especially compared to so many others we have,, means he ain't going anywhere..

..yes Kennedy didn't wanna go, but Judd is Judd.. ..and remember ppl also probably figured they were getting the burst type eagles Judd as well.. ..Boyd looks the goods, but a world of difference between Judd and an unproven, but high potential kid..

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..if you can't be good, be good at it..

Football coaches rate Kruezer.

Dumb ass Carlton supporters don't.

As I said, it's about culture and building on it within the club.
You don't trade players such as Kruezer! You develop them to play forward!
If you trade such players (read Kennedy) you kill the team environment even though you evidently still bring in a Judd.
As I've said all along - culture.

kennedy kreuzer and judd came from tanking surrey......

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Don't know if we tanked in '03 or '04 to grab Kennedy, we weren't that good back then.

surrey says we tanked.and thats bad culture winning.....wooden spoons dont win flags... cough... brissy lions cough..... (bad operations dont wwin flags... current carlton .......cough carlton)

what surrey doesnt get was wwinning an extra game and not picking up two games shouldnt have harmed us

surrey talks about culture .... yet condones lies by the club... and cheating...
he once told us salary cap cheating by elliot was good... but we should have worked better to not get caught.
and he speaks about "circles of trust on the board "

surrey doesnt make sense... thats the bottom line ...

i just bring up his inconsistencies... dont mind me...

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Wow just wow....now I said Elliot cheating was good! Wow just wow.
Tanking and trading is good for your club culture.....right let me know who you will vote for at our next general meeting because I'm voting for the opposite ticket!!!

Ps. I didn't realise you got suspended for calling people stupid last time but if I were you, I would be careful what your are insinuating in your posts....

If I had to chose, Id prefer Gibbs to be traded instead of Kreuz.
No one can ever fault Kreuzer's trying. Not his fault he hasn't been quite right since his knee buckled.
Gibbe on the other hand, apart from some small glimpse, has preferred to prance around the ground taking the easy way out for most of his career, and Ratts LET HIM DO IT!

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James Hird and Essendon* FC - #FOREVERDRUGCHEATS

Ratten and Pagan for that matter played him back to teach accountability.
Unfortunately, he has learnt the easy ball across back is a nice way to play football now.
Malthouse has at least tried to push him through the middle a little more but even he is finding majority top picks have an attitude that they "don't need to change the way they play".