Ratten was then mis-informed by us having to finish top 4 in 2012.

I thought that was a high expectation at the time, i think the expectation should have been finals with top 4 as something to aim at.

Injuries put paid to any hopes of a top 4 finish and Ratten's insistence on going back to the same old back ups such as Bower and Russell (who had failed us time and time again) rather than trying others (which he only did when he had no other choice) cost us a chance at making the 8.

Even if we don't make the 8 this year i feel much happier that we have at least tried some players and given them a number of games to see what we need to do at the trade table at season's end.

The Judd and Warnock trades were diabolical and typical of a club who was stuck in the past and only thought of itself in a shallow quick fix solution mindset
The Warnock deal was a disaster.
We gave the best ruckman on our list for pick 34 and 67 and Jacobs was near all Australian last year.
We could have Broadbent(best on the ground on the weekend)
Beames (a star)
Shiels ( quality mid in a probable Premiership team)
Hannebery (a star)
Redden( a ball magnet)
Sloane( gun toughnut)
and a few others like Motlop and Hunt thrown in for good measure
with pick 24

Worst trade ever since the Daniher trades 30 years ago

the only thing we got out of it was getting McInnes with pick 67
McCarthy was obtained with pick 34 and he is a spud.

then in the 2010 we focused on getting some tall timber
Mitchell
Watson
McCarthy
all disasters
Podsiadly
McDonald
Howe
Darling
would have been better options plus there were more quality mids available

Getting quality players from a bunch of teenagers isnt an exact science but given these events above and the number of quality players we could have got is a disgrace as far as list management is concerned


The Judd deal was a disaster IMO opinion as well
Judd is a great player but his best was at the west

We gave up Kennedy who is the one player we need (leads the goal kicking)
We could also have Dangerfield or Rioli on our list who are now in their prime years just as Judd was at West Coast

Judd will probably go at the end of 2014 and clubs move on without players

I had my reservations about this deal . We should have been more patient but that is not the Carlton way

And of course whilst all this has been going on Sticks and the Pratt clan continue to oversee all this.
If they had any decency they would stand down realising they haven't been up to it
You must get the right people on the board to get the right people in the right positions whether its recruiters coaches whatever and then things will run better

It was quite comical watching Meese in the VFL working his arse off in the ruck whilst Warnock was banished to Full Forward to see if he could do anything else than tap the ball down.
I loved it because MM is doing things that Ratten should have done with Warnock years earlier
I love the fact that he banished Yarran to the reserves for being a sook.

But the board has to go because if we have Pratts and Sticks at the helm the club will continue to make to many mistakes

A long road ahead.

Must say I am more worried about our lack of talented young mids coming through than talls.

Swans won a flag with Reid and Lrt, by having a massive amount of quality mids.

Judd carazzo Scotland Simpson all near end

Lucas best young mid

To me that's a huge issue

..swans also had/have mattner and goodes.. ..goodes, dual charlie champion player that put in a herculean effort on one leg.. a team chock full of seasoned, experienced stars.. ..Goodes, RoK, Bolton as on field leaders are huge..

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..if you can't be good, be good at it..

Thank You Gab.
Problem was Ratten knew he's head was on the chopping bloke, due to expectation and had nowhere to go but the same ol same ol.

maybe we should hire a coach that can actualy coach for today and with an eye for the future

Agree with everything you wrote about Warnock. Wasn't happy about it back then and not happy now. Getting Warnock rounded up an amazing frenzy in ruck acquisitions. Picks 1, 17 and 24 ... YUK !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Can't agree about Judd. You have forgotten how shithouse we were and I credit Judd for stopping us from being shithouse. He has been great. Yes his best was in the west but that form he had there may never be seen again. I used to watch West Coast matches just to watch him.

If MM is really smart he will get another 3 very good years out of Judd. I cannot see why he couldn't play in Scotlands role going forward.

The Judd acquisition was our most important this century. We were STUFFED.

Talking of bad trades I am still not happy with the Mclean trade ... yeah sure he has been not bad of late, but people have to understand what we were giving up and WHEN. We knew that the 2010 and 2011 drafts were going to be compromised so getting pick 12 in 2009 was an absolute necessity. We just didn't think inside that square ... big miss in my eyes. I won't name players we could have got the opportunity to pick a potential 200 gamer was lost. This was the same Carlton short sighted thinking that got us McQuane, Charles, O'Reilly and Mansfield.

My argument about the Judd deal is that we didn't look long term
and one man doesn't make a team successful

I was happy building slowly if team success was the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow

Losing Kennedy has been pretty bad and Dangerfield is awesome

Imagine having those 2 in the side

It comes down to trust in your recruiters picking the right players

Even our number one picks haven't been fantastic

It shits me we put the development into guys like Jacobs and Kennedy only to see them go elsewhere and become very good players
In a way its easy to do what the club did and get the best player in the land
but IMO we didn't have to.
I personally don't care how long we were going to be shit or average or whatever so long as we eventually became a top 4 side


Times change. Most sides will go through cycles of success or failure because of how the system is set up.

The end of the season will be the most fascinating for years because of what path will the club take

MM apparently is surprised how shit our list is
So what does he do
Trade because he thinks we can win a flag with the right trades
or do we just start again with young kids and go from there

MM is a driven man. We know that but he is 60 ish and he cant coach forever.

Interesting what path he chooses at the end of the year

There should have been a greater cleanout last year . I remember talking to a guy at my local and he was saying that with Mick we were top 4 contenders and my reply was no we arnt good enough in the first place.

I reckon MM believes that's the case and it will be interesting to see what path he takes

Agree on Warnock, although we have some doozy deals to compete with it. What about swapping pick #19 for Craig Deveonport in 96 (?) and the Saints using it on BArry HAll, or swapping picks for Mansfield and the CAts using one for Chappy, and don't start on O'Reilly.

But you are kidding re Juddy. He has made us a 5 goal better side and improved every player at the club. The problem is that we overinvested in rucks. I love Big K but we have too many rucks and no power forwards. WCE wanted picks #1 and #3 for Judd. With that we wd still have Juddy and Josh K.

Also the McLean deal was ridiculous. Brock, to his credit has become a serviceable player, but who does a deal before the trade period? We gave up way more than Melbourne wd have taken and gave away pick #11, check out the talent that was available then. You don't give up a first rounder for a solid plodder who wants to leave his club and whose club is not fussed about retaining him. And Brock's strength is his relentless running and good hands, he is not the crash and bash Jude Bolton midfielder we needed to protect Juddy.

We have failed to get any gems beyond top 10 picks in ND. We have done well with rookies but so has everyone. The club appointed Ratts without even speaking to other prospective coaches like Hinkley etc, and we have been okay at the draft but not the best as we needed to be, we have had the best picks over the last 10 years, and now we will pay way too much to get a mediocre tall forward because the Board is desperate to justify their claims that if we bring in a premiership coach we get an instant premiership.

Whatever the spin that gets applied at seasons end, the Board totally misjudged the list and paid a fortune to sack a coach that they appointed through lack of due diligence and appoint MM. He was brought in for instant success and if we only do about as well as Ratts did with an injury riddled side loast year, then it is another of the litany of bad decisions that the lcub has made over the last 20 years.

How could a club that had a talent tap on full bore during the heady days of the Bendigo zone, be so poor at drafting for so long.

Greg Swan was on SEN this morning talking with KB about Carlton's list... he said he expected a 'fairly substantial turnover' at end of year.

I agree with most of what you say - but the only thing wrong with the Judd deal is that we overpaid, Pick 3 & 20 (or even just giving them Pick 1 only - but i shudder to think how we would have used picks 3 & 20) should have been enough, throwing in Kennedy was paying overs.

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"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

Winston Churchill

Wish we had have dug in and given Bower instead......no better view than hindsight

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"I will rejoice in their anguish, delight in their failure and revel in our success"

We are Carlton, @#$%&! the rest !!!!!!

Pick #3 from the Judd trade (2007) was always going to be one of either Masten, Cale Morton, Myers or Rhys Palmer.
No great loss there.
The Eagles used the pick #20 on Tony Notte who has since been delisted.

I agree the Warnock trade was unwarranted considering we already had Kreuzer, Jacobs and Hampson.
It hurts to think that the likes of Beams & Hannebury or even Redden, Shiels, Sloane were available around that pick. Saying that I believe we would have taken Robbo with the pick #24 anyway.

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There is no footy god

If only they would extend that to a couple in the board room

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I just want my old club back ... (edit) maybe I have!

From what I remember, Eagles were never really interested in PB (or Fev for that matter). It was always about JK.

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WADA medical director Dr Alan Vernec describes Essendon* FC drug case as biggest scandal in team sport the world of sport has seen. #WC2WB

#GUILTY

You never know - we might pinch a flag next year.

The Hawks should drop off with the likes of Mitchell, Sewell, Hodge & Burgoyne past their prime. In addition Franklin looks likely to move on.
Essendon* expected to be screwed by ASADA.
West Coast's window has shut with Cox, Kerr and Glass all past their prime.
That leaves Sydney, Geelong, Collingwood and Freo - if we can recruit a quality ready made player this draft we should be able to match it with these sides.

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There is no footy god

Ready to reconsider that Humpers?

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#DonTheStash

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Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience!!!

After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says W T F .........
Visit http://fromthemoshpit.com/

It isn't totally out of the question, but highly remote.

Jack Riewoldt would be good, along with Boyd.