'You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink'....or perhaps Jesus said it better when he said in Matthew 15:14...

'Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.'



It's not just on-field. AT years end a lot of people will sit back and say 'WTF? Why are we having a re-build?'...but it's the only way. We've been average at a lot of things for a long time. Improving in many areas...but a long way behind the eight-ball.

We are 8 out of 16, mean, median, whatever, that is average

The comment about no players starring is interesting

Malthouse teams share that trait

That said, maybe Judd's star is fading and Murphy is carrying a knee complaint

I do tend to agree though Malthouse is trying to change the midfield to make it more even with more depth and basically a new wave coming through

I like it how he has turned Laidler and Collins upside down and inside out - arguments can be made for making Laidler a forward and Collins a defender. That's smart by Malthoise

I like Mick

I'm sure he's as peeved as anyone our recruiting has been so mediocre for so long

New coach. New recruitment team.

Good signs ... For LT

Maybe not enough to make this current list premiers ... Some serious trading is needed to do that IMO

IMO Carlton are soft rather than average - the high draft picks have delivered much talent but with very little mongrel.

We are the old Geelong. Instead of the Bluebaggers we are the Handbaggers.

The only mongrel we have is Robbo, McLean and an undisciplined Waite. Not exactly scary! No wonder the more powerful sides pick us up and spit us out.

Look at the list. It looks like a gaggle of girl guides. I wonder why Laidler is not in the team and then see a puff piece about him and Gibbs walking their sausage dog & poodle around Princes Park!

I am v happy re MM and I hope to see more of Bell, Cachia, White & Rowe in the seniors, get a number of games into them – no they may not be that gifted but they add some grunt and strength.

IMO the talent on Carlton’s list is way above average – among the best – but the assembled squad lacks toughness. You need a balance, it can’t be all talent.

Agree on the hardness thing 100%

I think we lack depth though especially in key forwards and small to mid defenders

Lack a truly hard experienced midfield core too as you noted

Gibbs, Murphy, Walker, Yarran, Garlett, Simpson, Betts, none are remotely hard and tough

This is a brilliant thread....summarises in one page all of the millions of words that have been spewed forth on this site over the last 5 years and paints the truth, albeit a pretty sobering truth.

what surprises me is how many of the so called experts (and even opposition supporters and to some extent some naive Carlton supporters) refuse to see the truth that our list is not capable of mounting a serious top 4 challenge and is in need of a mini-rebuild (in the words of Doc Sherrin).

Sad fact is the judd era will not deliver a premiership to carlton...

All we can hope is that finally by the beginning of 2014, the leadership positions at this club will be finally held by people with the required expertise and of the right calibre to build a foundation for success...

President - Fahour/Sayers
Coach - Mick Malthouse
Captain - ????

Here's hoping the "mini-rebuild" can be successful and deliver ultimate success to the club in the twilight years of murph, gibbs and kreuze's careers !

All aboard....

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Congratulations CK95

The thread would be called why are we shit.

We are average at present because the journey to greatness is done in steps, and where we are now is the next step towards greatness.

We were hopeless in 2002, and the next 6 years right through to 2008.

2009 we made the finals with an avearge list, with average players like Setanta, TBird, Bower, Grigg, Cloke, Fisher, Johnson, Russell, Bannister, Hartlett, Wiggins, Bentick, Browne...you know a mix of rejects and dud draftees.

Ratten came along in 2009 and we've been building since but have been found out carrying prospects who don't have the class or ticker to make us great like Davies, Duigan, White, OKeefe, Collins, Rowe, Casboult...

The new coach comes into this avearge club and needs to see the list with fresh eyes and weed out the avearge with those who will take us to the holy grail.

Its part of the process....like dud decisions. No one goes out to select duds, but they get found out.
Maybe its taken us too long to find out, but imo we are scrutinising this year and hopefully the new coach can find some gems amongst the avearge performers who will add to the class we've got and need to get this trade season.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

Sorry to disappoint you but Ratten came along in 2007.

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"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

Winston Churchill

http://www.blueseum.org/tiki-index.php?page=2007

Too true Agro. Round 16, 2007 was Pagan's last game as Carlton coach - a 117 point loss at the Gabba.

From the Blueseum

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Check out www.blueseum.org for all of your Carlton information needs.

5 Pre-seasons, and 5 Drafts.

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"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

Winston Churchill

Yes we are on the journey to average greatness.....
Every layer has been average...
President.
Below him board
CEO
Footy dept
coaches
recruitment
Development
leadership
Membership
Income

its a real Turducken of average we have there....

The thing is for real change we must have change at the top... Sticks is the best man for the job???

YHTBFKM....

If these guys wanted whats best for the club they would step down and throw the board open for election.

Sticks should step right away... hes too much of an obstacle

Once the club has a president and youd think of all those people in Australia.. we can get one better than Sticks...id like to think we can start again... out with the old culture.... and in with some new ideas .. the club reinvigorated
Lets face it... were one stale club at the moment.. stale people... stale ideas...

OR....,

we can remain as we are unchanged...and cop more of the same.
Problem will be when were no longer average and were just plain ol d shit!!

There is one thing thats still strong a bout this club and its numbers of the supporters.. wont be long before these guys start eroding that too....
its time for change!!!....

the club the players the supporters deserve to be heading somewhere...!!!

A rudderless ship too long!!!

YEs it really is a TURDucken at Carlton...

Some younger supporters and new arrivals probably dont get what this club used to be.. they probaby think were mad!!!...

Am i spoilt to want a thriving succesful Carlton and not this stale bland insipid rudderless empty vessel???

I know some people enoy us being average... i just cant!!!... Im a Carlton supporter, for crying out loud!!!...i dont support the Bulldogs or StKilda..

I dont wanna be the next Demons or Tigers!!!

Its time!!!... no more fluff!!!.. no more mediocrity!!!!

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Were worse than that .. were one eliminational final win in 12 seasons...!!!

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Shad,have we got anyone that can replace them.

Young Buckley has some agro about him. Genuine, innate hardness and competitiveness like his Dad

Shame he's not yet experience and big enough to impact on this team

Mini rebuild will commence at seasons end and Mick would be planning for it, he knows what he has got isn't going to take us to where we want to be.

Why we are so average is a long story which in my opinion is a journey of degeneration which begun as far back as the late 80s. The 95 flag was a red herring still addicted to the old methods.

We still throw money at people/individuals expecting that will do the trick, which is ok to do as long as your working as hard to get everything else right. Which we haven't.

We need to make sure we get draft picks right for the next 2-3 years, as we will be needing young ones to push up sooner rather than later, otherwise we will be reminiscing in 2016 about the days we used to be average.

shit goal kicking.

Put very little scoreboard pressure on our opponents. We dominate periods of the game and regularly kick less than 50% or worse of our shots on goal. Opponent goes kicks a couple in quick reply and they're back in the game, despite our extended period of control.

If we can fix that, we will be markedly better side and would probably be 7 and 2 worst case at present.

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The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help.

Ronald Reagan

Um... what do you think mediocre means? Get real, you'd think that there were only two states of being if you were a football fan, those who go around with a s*** eating grin plastered on their faces, thinking a premiership is their god given right and inevitable and those that are the so-called chicken littles that think that we are just one more loss away from packing in the towel and folding.

It's more than simply looking at win/loss ratios; more than 50% on this site can read between the lines and have come to realise that we are bloody mediocre and we are not going to get better beyond 2013 unless we start to bloody own up to it and bloody do something about it.

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Just because I'm offended, doesn't mean I'm wrong.

They're certainly not playing for us if they've read what our supporters post about them.

Perhaps we get the team we deserve.