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PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 5:56 am 
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Bruce Doull
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Kouta wrote:
Good thread with stunning insight that I haven't seen before.

Who needs Barack Obama?

Will read again.

who does barack obama play like???

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 8:22 am 
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Bruce Doull
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:lol:

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 8:35 am 
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formerly cj69

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Injuries and the amount of full pre seasons a player can get under them is so vital these days. Most kids need a minimum three full pre seasons to see the benefits and that is without any real injury issues.

The game is just so demanding its ridiculous and with a rotation cap next year it may well get harder.

The ability to get the best out of our kids can be based purely on their ability to stay fit. Look at Laidler, had an average pre season and is struggling to keep up. And he is a more mature player.

I have no doubt we have some real talent on our list. The question is can we get the best out of them?

IMO Guys like OKeefe, McCarthy, Mitchell, Graham, Temay, Menzel, Lucas, Buckley, Dale, Watson have some real talent but can they get consistent training and game time under their belt.

This is why I like the idea of MM not doing to much tackling etc over pre season. The younger bodies need time to develop and the older need time to recovery.

It is a very fine line. I believe over the past few years we havent built big enough bodies on our players and they have been played injured, done too much contact work in the pre season and as such have suffered come the real season.

"IF" we can keep these kids fit and getting consistent game time the changes can be immense! Fitness, experience and confidence combined can make a massive difference.

Next year if players reach their potential we could easily have a top 4 side looking like:

B: Temay Jamison McInnes
HB: Walker McCarthy OKeefe
C: Yarran Graham Bootsma
HF: Judd Henderson Menzel
F: Betts Mitchell Casboult
Foll: Kruezer Gibbs Murphy
Int from: Tuohy Waite Carrazzo Robinson Buckley Bell Garlett Ellard Laidler

All of a sudden, depth, flexibility, skills, speed and players really pushing for spots.

Add to that one or two trades (lets say Watts & Jacksh :wink:), one or two free agency players (M.Brown?) and 3-4 new kids and a range of rookies (Mature back up Ruck, 1-2 hard bodied back up mids ala Nelson and a couple of talented kids, maybe Garlett?).

As I said its a fine line but there is some real hope. :thumbsup:

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 12:29 pm 
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Harry Vallence

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Don't get the fascination with the drug taking cheats. Carlisle?? Certainly had a few good games to start the season but lets see how the year pans out. IMO will always be remembered as the human stepladder!!


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 1:10 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2011 9:27 am
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ThePsychologist wrote:
Next year if players reach their potential we could easily have a top 4 side looking like:

B: Temay Jamison McInnes
HB: Walker McCarthy OKeefe
C: Yarran Graham Bootsma
HF: Judd Henderson Menzel
F: Betts Mitchell Casboult
Foll: Kruezer Gibbs Murphy
Int from: Tuohy Waite Carrazzo Robinson Buckley Bell Garlett Ellard Laidler

All of a sudden, depth, flexibility, skills, speed and players really pushing for spots.

Add to that one or two trades (lets say Watts & Jacksh :wink:), one or two free agency players (M.Brown?) and 3-4 new kids and a range of rookies (Mature back up Ruck, 1-2 hard bodied back up mids ala Nelson and a couple of talented kids, maybe Garlett?).

As I said its a fine line but there is some real hope. :thumbsup:


Interesting side Psych, but can we really bring in 10 players that have played less than 10 games each?

I'd be pleased if we could have McCarthy, Menzel, Bootsma and Graham playing quality football next year.
That alone would cover some of the gaps we have, whilst allowing some that are currently playing dual-type roles the ability to make a position their own.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 1:12 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2007 6:36 pm
Posts: 1057
Location: melbourne
An issue we will face this year,
If Jamison/Henderson go down who will replace him/them?
Getting games into Watson/McCarthy now will help out come
a time when Jamison/Henderson go down.
if not and they do come in, key forwards will make them look
second rate. Let them Learn playing on the 2/3 tall forward so
If/when they have to play on the number 1 forward they have some
experience. May even release Henderson forward!
still can't understand why Joseph is playing, armfield can play the
small defender role!! the sub could be a great way for players like
Buckley/menzel/bell/dale etc to get some game time experience
into them. just my opinion


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 1:32 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2011 9:27 am
Posts: 2345
blueboy23 wrote:
An issue we will face this year,
If Jamison/Henderson go down who will replace him/them?
Getting games into Watson/McCarthy now will help out come
a time when Jamison/Henderson go down.



It's somewhat early just yet but we look as though we have a plan in how to develop our kids through the VFL, now.

Whereas last year playing games at VFL level was an every man for himself affair, the message just seems to be stronger in adhering to team rules this year.
Players don't look disinterested or lacking intent and it also feels as though every player knows what is expected of them before knocking on MM's door.

Players will be given a go but they'll have to have achieved a minimum expectation before any consideration.
At this stage Watson is a little closer than McCarthy but that could change soon enough.

I also feel that Malthouse knows that he has to get his list in order before making a concerted assault as serious finals contenders.
Remember that Malthouse has already announced our list as having Premiership potential. That doesn't mean that they're all ready just yet though.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 1:55 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2007 6:36 pm
Posts: 1057
Location: melbourne
Cheers harker,
Question mate, what are your thoughts on
-do you think Watson/McCarthy will make it?
-how far away are Buckley/menzel?
-could we land someone like, Tom lynch from Gold Coast?
-does Mitchell have what it takes?
-what's the go with laidler and duigan? duigan was almost our skipper
Sorry for the questions, but I value your opinion and you make great sense
cheers bud


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 6:14 pm 
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Bob Chitty

Joined: Tue May 11, 2010 9:46 pm
Posts: 832
I would love us to get Tom Lynch blueboy23. I think he is a beauty.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 7:52 pm 
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Harry Vallence

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Location: melbourne
hey mots,
not sure of he's contract status, but i would be offering him an offer he could not refuse, 3/4 years $400k per year???
he is going to be a very serious player.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 1:38 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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Location: Geelong
I continue to be amazed at the plaudits given to players either not on our list or who are on
it but cannot get a game. I suppose it's some sort of "grass is greener ... " thing.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 2:02 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2011 9:27 am
Posts: 2345
blueboy23 wrote:
Cheers harker,
Question mate, what are your thoughts on
-do you think Watson/McCarthy will make it?
-how far away are Buckley/menzel?
-could we land someone like, Tom lynch from Gold Coast?
-does Mitchell have what it takes?
-what's the go with laidler and duigan? duigan was almost our skipper
Sorry for the questions, but I value your opinion and you make great sense
cheers bud


I'm far from an expert and don't live at the CFC so can really only comment on what I see taking into account a little inside info now and then.

Watson:
I'd feel better about him if his arms were 5cm longer. Seems to lack reach and misses important spoils by just a bit. That bit is all important though.
He's not the fastest and I would have said far from the smartest last year, but seems to have a good handle on his job and the job of others around him right now.

McCarthy:
I'll feel better about McCarthy when he smacks an opponent in the mouth. I don't really mean that but would just love to see a hunger that seems to be missing right now.
Moves well has the smarts but just doesn't "seem" to dig in.

Menzel:
Pretty clear he'll make for a player, a very good player.
Happy to mix it up against men even now. Still travelling at 3/4 pace but you can just tell.

Buckley:
If he doesn't make it, it won't be for lack of trying.
His good is very good but has to put together a full game for which I haven't seen yet and not even in the game that had him earn his AFL debut.
Burst player right now and that's just not enough. Has plenty of time on his side and will be given a contract come years end.

Mitchell:
Looked better to me in last years pre-season than he did through this last one.
A few here have knocked him and for good reason at times, but some of the delivery to him at the VFL level is just shocking.
Makes good in his leads and the ball either gets dropped on his head or he's forced to stop and prop. That movement doesn't serve him too well.
I believe that MM may have just told him not to expect a game this year and it's all about getting his game right. Has some way to go yet but has been improving in recent weeks.

Duigan:
Currently can't see him getting another game at AFL level.
Love the guy and the efforts he brings but you he hasn't the tools needed against the types he'd have to play on.

Laidler:
Not sure what turn of events has put him in this situation.
His knee? Discipline? Team Balance? I don't know. There is plenty being written up about him and plenty of questions being asked. I haven't the answers.

Wouldn't be surprised should Judd step down this year and gives us the salary cap space to attack a couple of premium players. Think we'll know about Judd in a couple of months.
Expecting to lose anything up to 10 players at years end. Not all of them will relieve any substantial cap space, but the spots will be there.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 2:12 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Mon May 31, 2010 10:07 pm
Posts: 1984
harker wrote:
Wouldn't be surprised should Judd step down this year and gives us the salary cap space to attack a couple of premium players. Think we'll know about Judd in a couple of months.
Expecting to lose anything up to 10 players at years end. Not all of them will relieve any substantial cap space, but the spots will be there.


Judd has already said he wants to play next year, and I'd be staggered if we turned over a quarter of the list.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 2:25 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2011 9:27 am
Posts: 2345
Stamos wrote:
harker wrote:
Wouldn't be surprised should Judd step down this year and gives us the salary cap space to attack a couple of premium players. Think we'll know about Judd in a couple of months.
Expecting to lose anything up to 10 players at years end. Not all of them will relieve any substantial cap space, but the spots will be there.


Judd has already said he wants to play next year, and I'd be staggered if we turned over a quarter of the list.


It's actually not anywhere near as hard as it may seem to be on face value.

There would hardly be outrage should we de-list: Davies, Joseph, Collins, O'Keeffe, Cachia, Dale and Duigan.
Scotland is likely to retire and if we trade a ruck-man and another player, you have your ten.

Judd? Just my personal observation.
If his game drops off and he sees an opportunity for Carlton to attain, let's just say Franklin, then I see him putting his hand up.
We'll know more soon enough.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 2:29 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Mon May 31, 2010 10:07 pm
Posts: 1984
harker wrote:
There would hardly be outrage should we de-list: Davies, Joseph, Collins, O'Keeffe, Cachia, Dale and Duigan.
Scotland is likely to retire and if we trade a ruck-man and another player, you have your ten.


I'd be surprised that if we cut Davies, AJ, Collins, O'Keefe and Duigan, that we would then also cut Dale and Cachia. Individually, we might have 10 in the gun, but I cannot see us moving them all on.

And if we do trade a ruckman, then it would want to be a bloody good deal. Saturday night showed why we need 3 on the list.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 2:34 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2011 9:27 am
Posts: 2345
Stamos wrote:
harker wrote:
There would hardly be outrage should we de-list: Davies, Joseph, Collins, O'Keeffe, Cachia, Dale and Duigan.
Scotland is likely to retire and if we trade a ruck-man and another player, you have your ten.


I'd be surprised that if we cut Davies, AJ, Collins, O'Keefe and Duigan, that we would then also cut Dale and Cachia. Individually, we might have 10 in the gun, but I cannot see us moving them all on.

And if we do trade a ruckman, then it would want to be a bloody good deal. Saturday night showed why we need 3 on the list.


You know my feelings on the rucks Stamos. I wouldn't trade any of them but the think-tank is saying otherwise.

Anyway, I didn't say that we'd move on ten players but anything up to.
The last two years have had us moving on the bare minimums and I'll "guess" that MM won't want to instill any false hopes for some of the guys.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 11:44 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Sun May 22, 2005 11:58 pm
Posts: 4058
Location: South Yarra
Synbad wrote:
Kouta wrote:
Good thread with stunning insight that I haven't seen before.

Who needs Barack Obama?

Will read again.

who does barack obama play like???


:lol:


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 7:30 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2009 7:44 pm
Posts: 1287
Location: Melbourne
Good points Shag.

We've bemoaned our apparently weak player development ad nauseum.

In terms of size, skills set, and need MCarthy is the one I'd like to see given a go. Can't throw newbies to the wolves, so we would need to have a consolidated senior core down back to support him, which means IMO that Jamo, Hendo and Laidler need to be cemented in.

But more importantly, WTF are you doing going to watch 3 out of 4 Essendon* games? How do you stand it? Does your mate reciprocate and come to Carlton games? Interesting arrangement!


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 10:39 pm 
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Adrian Gallagher

Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2012 10:04 am
Posts: 56
IMO people that are in the gun:

Laidler
Collins
O'Keeffe
Hampson
Davies
Duigan
Cachia
Joseph
White

Out of them I would keep
Hampson
Laidler
Duigan

However it is clear that Laidler and Duigan are not in MM plans so a trade may be an option??


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 10:39 pm 
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Adrian Gallagher

Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2012 10:04 am
Posts: 56
Mitchell - Hopefully crack the 22 soon!


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