What a load of simplistic crap....

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

Yep. Tanking for the no 1's isnt the go. Having 3 number 1's isnt the blueprint for success. No team has one a flag with such a plan.
It is a losers plan unfortunately and it takes a lot of years to get over.

Players get use to the feeling of losing and it becomes an easy option when things are not going well. Then when it hits the fan just blame the coach.

We will get through it but it will take more years....and then a few more.

I actually have a bet going which I think I will win easily and the bet is that Carlton won't win another flag until all those players that played in the spoon sides are no longer on the list

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If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

Unfortunately I agree. A lot was said during our tanking years about "winning culture" and the like, and those people were soundly criticised and mocked during that time, particularly when the Judd trade occured. People talked about the effect that this would have in the long-term, how this attitude that "things would just get better" would affect the whole club. 2012 was the year the consequences of this came home to roost.

And now, my excitement for 2013 is also mixed with this feeling that we're going down that same path again. Malthouse, Cloke, Mathieson, are we expecting another easy-fix? One would hope now with guys like Fahour and Sayers on the board, this complacency gets swept away.

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So we got used to losing based on one or two games at the end of a season that we might have won had we tried rather than the fifteen or sixteen games we lost during the rest of the season where we didn't win because we were shit?

How does that work?

We could have won those games at the end of those years and got three number 2 picks or a couple of 2s and a 3 or whatever and those extra couple of wins would somehow have miraculously stopped us from "taking the easy option" further down the track?

I don't buy it.

If you want to find a root cause for the crap (and I don't believe there's just one) then the "player empowerment" of the 90s isn't a bad place to start. What worked for guys like Williams, Kernahan, Bradley, Silvagni, Dean, etc isn't necessarily the learning environment you want for the next generation who were left when those guys retire.

We were a staggeringly undisciplined and poorly lead side from the late 90s onwards.

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“When a clown moves into a palace, he doesn't become a king. The palace turns into a circus.”
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For you, definitely. You have well thought-out and clearly enunciated reasons why you think the selection of Malthouse (and in particular the process behind it) is flawed.

But I've lost count of the number of times I've heard or read people say that they wouldn't want Balme near the club, despite how good he seems to be at his job, because he hit Southby a lifetime ago.

People seem to hate nathan buckley for no reason other than he played very good football for collingwood, and he knew it. If he was carlton, we'd love him for his confidence. He's collingwood, so we hate him for his arrogance.

People here love Big Nick, but people here would hate Big Nick if he played for Richmond and took a dive which got one of our players suspended from a Grand Final.

It certainly is a load of simplistic crap. Doesn't mean a lot of people don't go for it, though.

x2

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I hate a complex crap.

There was the tank because they hated pagan game against North. There was the end of season tanks. There was the tank to get rid of Pagan games. Losing mid season when losing became a little bit more of a good option. Just a little. Enough though. Feeds a bad culture. Bad mindset. Great club cultures like the ones at the Cats and Swans were not built on tanking.

Tanking for that extra step up the draft order doesnt get results. No 1 picks don't get you results as much as Synbad thinks they do.

Yeah, see there's no way anyone can honestly suggest that we would have won all those games had we wanted to.

I think some of us forget that we were really, really, shit.

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“When a clown moves into a palace, he doesn't become a king. The palace turns into a circus.”
Turkish Proverb

There is no doubt we would have won a few more - Carlton was pulling up stumps at round 11 or 12
Melbourne done the same thing and it has sent a wrecking ball through that place

The problem is that the existing players know they don't have to try that hard still get their cash and carry on regardless - But what happens is a few years down the track they start to look at who was brought in and how they are playing and they either think we lost for him - Or they start to see their position in the side is not as stable as it was before . If results suddenly don't start to flow they will be thinking I am going down my entire career with out any success and the only thing to show for it was some hairy arsed 18 year old who wasn't the be all and end all they thought he was going to be and a hand full of wooden spoons to go along with them .

We will not win a flag until those that were in the sides that tanked are no longer at the club and the club despite it's position on the ladder has a win at all cost attitude and don't turn up an accept losses as just part of the game .

Kids are taught to accept losing these days - you don't want any of those kids at your club

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If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

I'm not convinced.

A coach who was willing to drop players for undisciplined or weak efforts over the last 5 years would have gone a whole lot further to fixing a problem of complacency than any additional wins from 10 years ago.

Ratten turned his team into the Australian cricket team and don't get me started on them.

Players' contracts are usually arranged on base payments plus match payments. Take away the match payments for a few weeks and see how much they want to win when they come back.

I don't think Ratten was the devil incarnate but our team selection over the last few years has sucked big time. Harder to get in than out by a long shot.

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“When a clown moves into a palace, he doesn't become a king. The palace turns into a circus.”
Turkish Proverb

We only tanked 2007

We were simply rubbish the other years

That tanking that Collingwood did to get Thomas and Pendlebury really set their culture back a mile. No way were they ever going to contest at the top end after that, let alone win a flag.

they invented the tank.

If people seriously think some tanking 5 Years ago has any impact now they are in la la land.

The reason we struggled this year was a combination of injures and poor coaching and game plan, with a dash of key coaches not getting along with each other.

One year not 4 or 5
Big difference

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If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

..lookit, tanking or not, you need to be crap to be in a position that tanking has a benefit.. ..so obviously to do it for a few years we really were rock bottom.. ..i don't believe that tanking of the smoking gun, but it wouldnt be all gain and no pain either..

..in regards to pies [and hawks], different rules back then meant your PP was before round 1 after only a single shite year..

..its not just a certain apathy and complacency in the playing list, it went off-field as well.. ..we don't have a good core culture, we have a money bags culture.. ..always have, and still very much do.. ..we prefer to buy in, vs develop..

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..if you can't be good, be good at it..