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 Post subject: Re: Praccy game Article
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 3:45 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 18030
Lots of playing the man in this thread which is unfortunate but personally, I agree with some of Josh' sentiments. Being an AFL coach isn't about just directing the team anymore.
The senior coach is viewed as the leader of the club and consequently, he requires an ability to represent the club publicly in a proficient and professional manner.
IMO, Ratts struggles in that regard. Compared to several other coaches, he lacks the sophistication required.

Can he adequately get by or improve to an acceptable standard? Let's hope so.

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 Post subject: Re: Praccy game Article
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 4:16 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 12:55 pm
Posts: 2952
Location: Balwyn
Josh Kaplan wrote:
@isdonis @lily forgotten you two were the bastion of intelligent posting- can't even recall you even being here. Instead of standing behind big cazz and shouting insults like the smallest most insecure guys in the gang, maybe point out which aspects of my posts you disagree with, formulate your responses and try and win an argument with debate. That's how this forum made it's name and I'm not sure how it's degenerated so badly over ze past 12-18 mths.
Hey Josh Kaplan you remind me of posters past – not saying you're like Synbad.

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 Post subject: Re: Praccy game Article
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 4:21 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 7:43 am
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Location: Corner of Queen and Collins
Agree BV - no need to attack Josh at all who is a longstanding, loyal and quality member of the site.

So Josh has some concerns over Ratten? Don't we all have concerns over some aspect of the Club? I do - big time.

From my perspective I'm a Ratten fan but I can't work out if a small or large part of that is loyalty from how much I admired the player. Sometimes in pressers Ratten seems to try so hard to not give any meat to the answer it gets frustrating. And if he uses the 'early doors' expression again I'm going to vomit.


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 Post subject: Re: Praccy game Article
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 4:32 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 12:38 pm
Posts: 7640
Been out for most of the summer and dont want to start with a negative post but FWIW Im in the Blue Vain and Josh category too - I hate Clarkson but he is a smart man and articulate - Paul Roos was a great ambasssador for his club because he was great on the field and off it-sophisticated and articulate -Bomber Thompson also exhibited these qualities

I have doubts that Ratts can take us to the top echelon because he seems to lack as Blue Vain put it well the level of sophistication to succeed as a modern coach - having said that Ross Lyon seemed to start on the back foot early days in his coaching career but has significantly improved so perhaps we are judging ratts too harshly

I hope Im wrong as Ratts is a great passionate carlton guy but maybe these days you need more than that

I also hope that Im completely wrong and a top 4 is beckoning - maybe the addition of the new assistant coaches will help Ratts take us there


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 Post subject: Re: Praccy game Article
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 4:47 pm 
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formerly Josh Kaplan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 8:19 pm
Posts: 2187
Nice to have some real quality posters back.. hope you old stagers had a relaxing summer!


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 Post subject: Re: Praccy game Article
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 5:19 pm 
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Wayne Johnston
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:17 am
Posts: 8128
Josh Kaplan wrote:
@isdonis @lily forgotten you two were the bastion of intelligent posting- can't even recall you even being here. Instead of standing behind big cazz and shouting insults like the smallest most insecure guys in the gang, maybe point out which aspects of my posts you disagree with, formulate your responses and try and win an argument with debate. That's how this forum made it's name and I'm not sure how it's degenerated so badly over ze past 12-18 mths.


It hasn't denigrated, it's the same as it always was... trolls like the op not being moderated...

anyway,

we all know Ratts has his deficiencies... just some supporters accept it and others ignore it

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 Post subject: Re: Praccy game Article
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 6:29 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2006 9:51 am
Posts: 4919
Whether you like it or not ultimately he will get judged but wins / losses and not how he goes about addressing the media. If we win a final this year he will keep his job if we don't he is gone. It won't have anything to do with how and what he is saying to the outside.


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 Post subject: Re: Praccy game Article
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 6:54 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2005 3:08 pm
Posts: 16958
Location: Melbourne
budzy wrote:

It hasn't denigrated, it's the same as it always was... trolls like the op not being moderated...

anyway,

we all know Ratts has his deficiencies... just some supporters accept it and others ignore it



Aside from your good self budzy do you actually know anyone who is 100% perfect 100% of the time. The fact of the matter is there is no perfect AFL Coach. Look through the Premiership Coaches over the past 10 years and see for yourself. They all have quirks and personality traits that not everyone likes or agrees with.

Regards Cazzesman

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 Post subject: Re: Praccy game Article
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 7:56 pm 
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John Nicholls

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:52 am
Posts: 9105
Location: Nth Fitzroy
If Ratts wins us a flag in the next two years all teams will climbing over themselves to find the next coach who is good at footy but fluffs the odd sentence. It will be a new trend like zones a few years back and young coaches a year or two before that. :razz:

I hope people dont start barracking against Ratts and start picking little bits out of him just to prove a point.

As pointed out on earlier posts. It's in Ratts hands. If he wins games and gets us up the top fighting it out for a flag then people can try all they want to have digs at him but they will look the fools. If he fails to get the results then he will cop a mountain of shit and it will stick.

Go Blues!


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 Post subject: Re: Praccy game Article
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 9:24 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 12:38 pm
Posts: 7640
Agree Club I wont be barracking against him I hope he proves me wrong -completely wrong
The guy bleeds blue and white was a great Carlton player so has got my support

Any one who saw him after the match in the final last year against the swans would know what a great carlton person he is

Saw the utter devastation on his face when he came to the airport after the game to the guys credit he still posed for photos with the kids etc when it would have been easy to decline or shuffle away

I hope he succeeds -GO BLUES


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 Post subject: Re: Praccy game Article
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 9:32 pm 
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Ken Hands

Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2007 4:37 pm
Posts: 417
Josh Kaplan wrote:
Nice to have some real quality posters back.. hope you old stagers had a relaxing summer!

Sorry i havent gotten back to you earlier Josh been busy.....

You obviously didnt see the irony in criticising the coach for his inability to present well at interview, whilst at the same time you basically suggest someone posted what you were trying to say "more clearly". I thought it was funny!!! Hence my cheeky comment.

I too have stated that Ratts doesnt 'read' that well on paper and often his statements or comments arent well structured, but you have taken every opportunity to show your unhappiness with Ratts and thats fine by me, just dont expect agreement!

If my opinion is similar to another poster it doesnt suggest im hiding behind them, it just means I agree more with their view than I do yours.

Just on Ratts, I have no real attachment to him as coach (or any coach for that matter), I am however, quite happy overall with the progress of the team since his appointment and if we continue to improve as we have I will give credit where i think its due.

And as for being a bastion, I resent that comment, i'm as legitimate as the next bloke. :razz:


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 Post subject: Re: Praccy game Article
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 9:39 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 2:15 pm
Posts: 21544
Location: North of the border
Still yet to read or hear anything from the other 16 coaches on their clubs intra club matches

Ratts might not speak well but at least he speaks

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 Post subject: Re: Praccy game Article
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 10:12 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 2:37 pm
Posts: 19421
Location: afl.virtualsports.com.au
They haven't had them yet

Essendon* tomorrow
Adelaide Friday
Melbourne Thursday
North tomorrow week

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 Post subject: Re: Praccy game Article
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 11:13 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 10:26 am
Posts: 14730
Location: Comparing orange boners with Hirdy
Ppfftt...behind the times

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 Post subject: Re: Praccy game Article
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 10:53 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2005 3:08 pm
Posts: 16958
Location: Melbourne
lily of laguna wrote:
Josh Kaplan wrote:
Nice to have some real quality posters back.. hope you old stagers had a relaxing summer!

Sorry i havent gotten back to you earlier Josh been busy.....

You obviously didnt see the irony in criticising the coach for his inability to present well at interview, whilst at the same time you basically suggest someone posted what you were trying to say "more clearly". I thought it was funny!!! Hence my cheeky comment.

I too have stated that Ratts doesnt 'read' that well on paper and often his statements or comments arent well structured, but you have taken every opportunity to show your unhappiness with Ratts and thats fine by me, just dont expect agreement!

If my opinion is similar to another poster it doesnt suggest im hiding behind them, it just means I agree more with their view than I do yours.

Just on Ratts, I have no real attachment to him as coach (or any coach for that matter), I am however, quite happy overall with the progress of the team since his appointment and if we continue to improve as we have I will give credit where i think its due.

And as for being a bastion, I resent that comment, i'm as legitimate as the next bloke. :razz:


Nice prose.

Regards

Image

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 Post subject: Re: Praccy game Article
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 12:41 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 2:43 pm
Posts: 1341
Blue Vain wrote:
Lots of playing the man in this thread which is unfortunate but personally, I agree with some of Josh' sentiments. Being an AFL coach isn't about just directing the team anymore.
The senior coach is viewed as the leader of the club and consequently, he requires an ability to represent the club publicly in a proficient and professional manner.
IMO, Ratts struggles in that regard. Compared to several other coaches, he lacks the sophistication required.

Can he adequately get by or improve to an acceptable standard? Let's hope so.


Can you explain what "sophistication" is required to make a successful coach?

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 Post subject: Re: Praccy game Article
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 12:57 pm 
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Serge Silvagni

Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2007 8:04 pm
Posts: 976
Why are you all arguing - if Ratts doesn't win a final he is gawn.


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 Post subject: Re: Praccy game Article
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 3:04 pm 
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Ken Hands

Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2007 4:37 pm
Posts: 417
blue4 wrote:
Why are you all arguing - if Ratts doesn't win a final he is gawn.

Yep, and I think that is fair enough!!

We really are in a position to improve on last year, and Im pretty confident we will win at least 1 final. A top 4 finish would also be a very good result for this young team.

Firstly though I would like to see a run of wins greater than 2 in a row :banghead:


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 Post subject: Re: Praccy game Article
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 5:24 pm 
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Garry Crane

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 9:45 pm
Posts: 273
You set high expectations in this caper and if you fail to achieve them, even remotely, you will inevitably come under the hammer... Ratts has his deficiencies but so to does every other coach in any league, in any sport and I have never heard 100 % support from fans of any coach.

To be honest, I dont really care how well or sophisticated he communicates to me or anyone in the general public for that matter.

I would have thought that it has to come down whether he has :
- a overall strategy that is backed by club administration
- a matchday tactic that caters for the strengths and weaknesses of the opposition
- a way of translating this into a message that's clear to the players collectively and individually and that they're willing to back his and his lieutenant coaches judgement.
- and importantly, a clear sense from the players that the coach is fully supported by the clubs administration.

So, my biggest concern isnt with how sophisticated Ratten is in his communication with the public but rather how sophisticated Kernahan was coming out of lately and putting added fuel to the Ratts pressure pump. Doesnt it give an incling of doubt amongst maybe, less mature players that the support is there but only if the highest expecations of the club is not reached ? Why should the clubs administration even suggest to the general public that if he doesnt acheive a home final win that he is under fire? I'm happy for that pressure to be made clear behind closed doors but in public it becomes so open to interpretation and to me, just raises the possibilty of a slither of doubt amoungst the playing group.


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 Post subject: Re: Praccy game Article
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 7:08 pm 
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Wayne Johnston
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:17 am
Posts: 8128
Cazzesman wrote:
budzy wrote:

It hasn't denigrated, it's the same as it always was... trolls like the op not being moderated...

anyway,

we all know Ratts has his deficiencies... just some supporters accept it and others ignore it



Aside from your good self budzy do you actually know anyone who is 100% perfect 100% of the time. The fact of the matter is there is no perfect AFL Coach. Look through the Premiership Coaches over the past 10 years and see for yourself. They all have quirks and personality traits that not everyone likes or agrees with.

Regards Cazzesman


Of course... but some are more effective than others

The senior AFL coaching role today is far more encompassing than it use to be, requiring an elite ability to communicate through the media. The President and the Coach are hopeless in that regard.

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