told by Dr Seuss

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

Thats ok, no need to point out that one team had played in 2 of the prior 3 Grand Finals in the years preceding 2005 so had a very solid base to get them to where they are in 2010, whilst the other had a decimated list full of C graders and recycled junk to get to where they are.....

Yep one team also got a favourable draw every year, top class facilities largely paid for by the Victorian taxpayer, had player bad behaviour ignored/excused by the AFL, darlings of the media.

The other nearly destroyed by the AFL, terrible draw year in year out, acussed of tanking and investigated, threathened with move to Gold Coast, threatened with severe consquences every time a player stepped out of line and hounded by the media at every turn and only this year managed to get facilities consistant with a fully professional team.

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A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty" -Winston Churchill

L.M 35-06

I see your point, and there is some merit to it, BUT you do have to remember that in 2005 Collingwood was 2 and 3 years after consecutive GF appearances with most of that team intact (and they definitely tanked), whereas we were 6 years after a surprising GF appearance withOUT most of that team intact (and although we may have tanked, it's debatable whether we really were any better than 15th or 16th).

Further, Collingwood, while not having HIGH picks, nevertheless still had picks in the first round in 2002 and 2003, whereas we only had one (pick 2 in 2003).

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Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience!!!

After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says W T F .........
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I never said in that post I expected Carlton to be in the same position as Collingwood - re 5 years later. It is an interesting parallel to reflect on those two years- that is all. Carlton look way off even contending at this stage.


All I said is that I am hoping for some (at least one) finals games victories next year....making the big dance in unrealistic for Carlton.



By the way - only two of the players from Collingwood's 2002-03 g/f team were there in the 2010 g/f
They knew how to recruit post 2005, they had a game plan that bamboozled the opposition (including having 1 1/2 ruckmen & the forward press), they had a good coaching panel....all of it combined to create the happiness that Collingwood have in 2010.


I admire their recruiting...gutsy recruiting. I mean Leigh Brown - who would have thought he could be so valuable?
Wellingham - 2008 rookie draft, Chris Dawes pick 28... etc.


Maybe Carlton can devise something that can unsettle the opposition - eg use ruckmen in a way that has never been done before...Technically that should be the Blues' strength with Kreuzer/Warnock/Hampson. How do you get the best out of your ruck?

When I said "most of that team intact", I meant in 2005 NOT 2010!!!

IMO, you can't underestimate the impact that Presti, Lockyer, O'Bree, etc had on this team. What they provided in 2005-2009 (and into 2010) was....... CONTINUITY!!

See, aside from having good development, Collingwood also had a playing environment into which the likes of Thomas, Pendlebury, Goldsack, Toovey, et al could all ease in as bit players alongside seasoned, big bodied, leadership-type players. What did we have? Well Murphy being the No 1 midfielder in his 2nd season. So, yeah, they had a similar 2005 to us, but it was a one-off characterised by:

Collingwood-------------------------Carlton
a) strong development infrastructure vs virtually none;
b) strong 25-30 year old role models vs Fev, Stevens, etc;
c) strong team (which had recently played in 2 GFs) vs continual rabble since 2002!!

_________________
Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience!!!

After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says W T F .........
Visit http://fromthemoshpit.com/

Very fair points. I pretty much agree with much of what you say.

One thing I did notice is that nine players from each club in 2005 were capable of getting regular matches in 2010, so I guess in turnover of players who can get regular matches it has been partly similar.


Recruiting (getting two exceptional players that slotted in best 22 -Ball and Jolly), list management, competition for spots etc all have an impact, but I agree with your point about Lockyer, O'Bree etc providing the stability for new midfield options and Presti in defence.

Players from 2005 or before still on Carlton's list capable of getting regular matches in 2010:-

Eddie Betts
Andrew Carazzo
Ryan Houlihan (form dropped off/part injury)
Setanta O'hAilipin (form dropped off/injury)
Jordan Russell
Heath Scotland
Kade Simpson
Jarrad Waite (suspensions)
Andrew Walker (form up and down)

vs
Collingwood

Travis Cloke
Leon Davis
Alan Didak
Ben Johnson
Nick Maxwell
Harry O'Brien
Simon Prestigiacomo
Heath Shaw
Dane Swan

Lockyer I left off as he wasn't a regular option in 2010.

After our draft penalties in 2002 and the awful season of 2003, Gerard Healy wrote an article called ?Bad News Blues comparing us to the Brisbane Bears at their lowest. At the time he said it would take us 10 years to recover fully. I think he's proven right.
I wouldnt be comparing us to Collingwood because there is no comparison there.
After the 2008 GF, Collingwood fans could have compared themselves to Hawthorn who had tanked in 2005 and 2006, and won the flag while Collingwood were off the pace.

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T E A M

I guess I am just saying it is impressive how well Collingwood have recruited, coached, built up their team. All of the pieces have come together to create a premeirship team. Their recruiting in recent years has been spot on. Fully aware Carlton comes from a low base in terms of personnel from 2002-08.....comparing apples with pears etc.


I guess we could say the same thing about Geelong and their clever recruiting- re Selwood (pick 7), Harry Taylor (pick 17) etc.... hindsight a wonderful thing etc. One can't help but be a tiny bit jealous of the Geelongs & Collingwoods.

eg 2008 draft for Collingwood-
rookie - Maccaffer - tick
rookie - Wellingham - tick
pick 11 - Sidebottom - unbelievable how no one in first 10 picks didn't take him????? kicked 10 goals in TAC Cup g/f. Richmond went for Vickery/ Adelaide Davis....those kind of decisions can have huge ramifications for your club, although both might turn out decent it is unlikely they will match Sidebottom's record.
pick 29 - Beams - tick

tap is right, it is an interesting comparison.

One other thing Collingwood has had during the period being discussed is competent off-field stability.

Clearly not something we have been blessed with until a couple of years ago. Even now there's plenty who question the competence of our off-field team.

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