give Ratts some credit...he just coached one of his midfielders to a Brownlow

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"I had to eat"

or.....his Brownlow winning midfielder is keeping his head off the chopping block

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If I want your opinion, I'll give it to you!

Ratt's coaching ability and the barometer will be Murphy & Gibbs performance.

If they have another mediocre year and we fail to win a finals match then Ratts will need to move on.

Lets firstly clarify that Murphy and Gibbs didn't have mediocre years.

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"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent." Qui-Gon Jinn 15-05-2005

"there’s more chance of me becoming the full forward for the [Western Bulldogs] than there is of any change in the Labor Party." Julia Gillard 18-05-2010

Gibbs did have a mediocre year.
Murphy was good, but down a level from 09.

Players are judged on their impact relative to previous performance and expectations derived from that.

You can apply your caveats (Murphy's pre-season, Gibbs adjusting to a new role etc), but they were less effective than in 09.

There's a difference between being less effective and being mediocre.

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"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent." Qui-Gon Jinn 15-05-2005

"there’s more chance of me becoming the full forward for the [Western Bulldogs] than there is of any change in the Labor Party." Julia Gillard 18-05-2010

Ideally we'd have a new coach every two years. If we're struggling then we should change coach every 7-13 months. It makes sense.

Thoughts?

I'm not sure that dismantling the defences of Geelong and St.Kilda are enough to warrant a score card higher than a 5 out of 10 for Lappin this year. True, all areas of our game were below par, but when you finish the season with a 50% win-loss ration and having witnessed a very inaccurate year in front of goals, then the heat is on the forward line coach. Carlton also displayed the inability to win more than 2 consecutive games at any given time. Lack of forward line pressure saw the ball swept out quickly and into our backline, putting the midfielders and backmen under a ton of pressure.

so not to win more than two on a trot means Ratts and co can't coach for more than two weeks at a time

as opposed to players struggling to do what is necessary to win more than 2 weeks in a row.


apart from bias - why is this so? (yes in Julius's voice)

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

Your first two lines are not mutually exclusive as you have implied by the use of the words, "as opposed to".

If they were, there would be no need for a coaching staff. Just prepare a manual at the beginning of the year, hand it out to the players and let them work it out amongst themselves.

After all, the coach is not making them kick poorly, execute badly, position incorrectly etc etc etc. If a player is struggling to do anything that is necessary, surely its the role of the coaching staff to minimise the struggle. And the fact that we could not win more than two in a row this year is a damning stat. From memory, only ourselves and WC achieved that feat (I think????)

Same in education. Teachers don't tell their kids to make mistakes in exams but they do. Sometimes its because the kid just doesn't have it at that level. And quite often, its because there is an issue with the transference of knowledge and skills.

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If I want your opinion, I'll give it to you!

Yes just chop and change until we find the right one. When we get the right one we will know straight away. Blueman would have known even before that.

Bomber Thompson's position was queried by fans yet the only big name they traded in was Ottens, and that wasn't a short term fix.

Ratten's position is similar to many CEO's of listed companies.
They feel they need short term success in order to keep their job, which can be to the detriment of the organisation mid-long term.
I wonder who at Carlton has the power and patience to get things right.
You have to wonder if Ratts had another 3 yr contract would he do things differently.

My point is that the organizational culture shapes and forms the context in which significant actors make decisions...yours I think is that the better leaders will to some degree absorb this pressure, while still keeping an eye on the longer term strategic goals.

I agree, but i still think if you are participant to establishing those expectancies, then you have to be prepared to wear the potential negative consequences for the environment you created.

god help me, I'm starting to sound like paf

Chris Connolly was a good example of a coach putting the long term benefit of his club ahead of his career. He stated numerous times that if he were picking a team to solely win that week Sandilands would not be playing, but he knew it was best for Freo long term.

My point is that I don't think a coach with 1 year left on his contract should be too influential in list managemet, particularly acquisitions that have only a very short term benefit.

There is also the catch 22 where a coach needs a few years where he feels secure to develop a list properly, but the club doesn't want to give the security by committing to long contracts especially with inexperienced coaches.

some things here

1 - why is it a damning stat? Why isn't it an illuminating stat? why isn't it just another bloody stat? Or a stat's stat?

I'd hazard a guess and say because you want it to be a damning stat.

2 - your teacher thingy - it can also be for a whole range of external factors that have nothing to do with any of that stuff - I mean the kids are humans - home life - peer life- friendship life - sex life (or lack thereof), drug life etc.

I'd hazard a guess and say a whole range of factors are in play with our players too but lets just focus on the Ratts one cos it suits an argument.

The truth is none of us are in there day to day so anything we have to say is from an outsiders perspective looking in with our own bias, our own hopes and dreams, our own desires etc.

all we really know is that Carlton is not where we want it to be yet.

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

Sorry DB but there is nothing here to suit an argument
1. Carlton not being able to string together more than two games is what it is....a piss poor effort by a club trying to head north

2. My 'teacher thingy' is grounded in years of research. The single greatest indicator of student success is the teacher, not their socio economic status etc

3. How would you know that I (or others) write with a bias and express our hopes, dreams and desires in our musings on this forum. You don't even know me yet you've passed comment on me. Shame on you for forming an opinion of me without being part of my inner sanctum

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If I want your opinion, I'll give it to you!

Danny, you said you would judge Ratten at the end of the year. well, it is the end of the year- so time for you to answer this question.
Is Ratten the best coach available to lead us to flag number 17?
As Ive said many times- thats the standard.

[/quote][/quote]

on 2 - absolute shite research then - the single greatest indicator of student success is the student.

3. actually I was talking about myself. I accept that about me - the rest is fiction.


Josh - as I've actually said elsewhere - I have no idea if Ratts is the best available -

I do like Roos and Micky Malt but I accept that I have no true understanding of this subject - having never coached, never interviewed prospective coaches etc...

I worry that Ratts is learning on the job (something you mentioned in an different thread, and therefore I think we need to mentor him (see prelim's point 2 ) and I get frustrated at our lack of progress (like winning more than 2 games in a row) but I accept we average about 77 games as a team while the good ones average a lot more (Collingwood 105)

I think there are probably better coaches out there but I am not so sure Ratts being coach will prevent us from winning the 17th just as I am not sure getting the best ensures it.

I also think most of my opinions are based on not having all the information so silly yo expect the club to consider them.


And that is why I do all my yelling and ranting at the football where it is released into the air and soon forgotten about.

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

Perhaps we can coach by committee and have 4 coaches, one per quarter ... a the one that demonstrates the winning quarter will be the winner.

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NG
S M C , S F L