Wrong again Synbad. I know exactly where we stand and where we have f***ed up, it's just that I don't look for excuses (every minute of the day) and try to blame everyone else. I am the one requesting we do it the hard way back up and back ourselves in, your the one wanting the easy road because the alternative is just toooooo hard for you. You and your cronies are killing the "brand"..... lets hope you have no influence within our club, else our club is way down the creek without a paddle and probably gooonneee.

No use argueing with Synbad - Surrey Blue he is the leader of the Denis Pagan Properganda machine he hangs on every breath he makes . DP will have about a dozen more excuses to roll out before the end of the year and our freind Synbad will agree with every one of them. I wish he just have the guts to come out and do what Mick Malthouse did and except full responsibility for the situation the club is in at the moment . You cant keep turning players over every year you will never get a settled line up. Well at least he sort of suggested that his Gameplan was not working and he was going to adopt the flood to try limit the smashing we have been getting

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If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

Love the signature Surrey...

... you guys are killing me.

Excellent point.

Has it occured to either of you that so many players were turned over because our list was CRAP... and that there were certain players given the boot because of their disruptive influence to the playing list as a whole?... Or is this just too radical a concept to comprehend?

Excellent point my arse!!

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When Dick became President, it was as if everyone at Carlton came out of the hailstorm and into the sunshine - Stephen Kernahan

YARRAN!!





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Yes and look where it has got us . Has it occurred to you that we are last on the table and no better off than we were 3 years ago.

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If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

Has it occured to you that this is not really a suprise to anyone except Carlton supporters given when we finished last we were denied the chance to draft good young players, and were forced to take other clubs leavings who would otherwise have been delisted.

ooooh this game is fun. Your turn!

Anybody that thinks we shouldn't have turned over these players should go read the thread which outlines our playing list between 2003 and 2006. I'd love to know which of those players from 2003/04 the Pagan bashers think should be playing here today - or how they would make a difference to our side and our club. That list, with the exceptions of the retirements, is the stuff of nightmares.

Beaumont, Beaumont, Beaumont...give me Beaumont!

Actually - if we got him back perhaps he could bring his "scientific training methods" with him...

(...and a brick...)

My best mate is a Hawks fan. He wants to give us Beaumont back. Nuff said.

Ok I wont argue with you we had to get rid of all those players they were crap and none of them were worth keeping . So that means we have a better list today than what we had then . But guess what we are still last.

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If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

when the shit hit the fan most experts said it would take carlton 10 years to repair their screwed up list.

We all got a bit excited - oh hell okay i got a lot excited by what we saw during the summer, but that was a window, a pice of white space in all the shittiness, a glimpse of what Denis will do when he has rebuilt this mess. For now it comes back to patience.

3 years in and there are some very good kids and some great 'trainers' to support them.

3 more years of kids, development and most of all, games.

Add some handy pick ups - don't worry they will come because we will finsih low for at least 2 more years - and suddenly in 6 years a shit list will have been tossed out , reformed and ready to start playing - but that's still 3 years from now.

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

But do people have the patience to wait three years?

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Writer for SuperCoach Paige www.scpaige.com.au
Twitter - @johnfeeney24

Eccles, Fletcher, Freeborn, Mansfield, McKernan, Merrington, Murphy, Plunkett, Allan, Beaumont, Smith, Beasy, Campbell, Franchina, Croad, McCormick et al.

Yep we really should have kept these players on our list....We were better off 3 years ago compared to where we are now!!... Denis you inherited the best list in the comp when you came in... copped the worst draft penalties in AFL history...ppfft! that's no excuse...You should have kept all these players... it's your fault we're now heading for the bottom reaches of the ladder... and stop whingeing about those lost draft picks Denis... you've had a couple of years now to get over them... Surely your list should have recovered by now!!....We see right through you Denis!.... You're not fooling anyone!

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When Dick became President, it was as if everyone at Carlton came out of the hailstorm and into the sunshine - Stephen Kernahan

YARRAN!!





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You would like to hope that it is going to only be three years more but that would mean we would need to make the 8 next year- top 4 year after and then be in a position to challenge for the flag.
PJ can you see this happening

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If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

No.
I was implying three years ob re-building.
Developing the kids we have at the moment while acquiring other talented draftees along the way.

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Writer for SuperCoach Paige www.scpaige.com.au
Twitter - @johnfeeney24

Yep PJ I think many carlton are beginning, like me (yeah shut-up GWS:wink:)
to understand, think we are being trained well, sadly.

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

Bluebernz - I will agree with you that the previous administration left Pagan with a terrible list . They kept topping up the list in hope of maybe snatching a flag. With the exception of Kouta and whitnal I cant think of one player who started young and developed through the club. But none of us complained when we were playing finals every year. Pagan came to the club in 2003 with the knowledge that 8 players were returning off injury and the possibility of earlier draft picks but the players revolted they didn't like him and the draft picks were taken away. So he decided to clean them out (Fair enough). But knowing he had a rebuilding job in front of him why did he then go out and draft recycled hacks . It is worse than what the previous administration had done in trying to top up. I would have rathered that he took a chance on a young bloke than pick up some of the rubbish we have at the moment. Even this year Pagan thought we were better than what we are and instead of using his picks for youth he got Chambers and Longmuir and even Bryan. Once again trying to top up the list. He has got it wrong on several occassions and he will get it wrong again. Did you notice the change in our game on the weekend - they flooded back and slowed the game down. This should have been done at the 10 minute mark of the Richmond game. But I am wondering was the change in the gameplan Pagans idea or was it a result of the players meeting during the week. Just as Wayne Carey said about Lance last week that the game is slowly passing him by , I think sadly the same thing is happening to Denis

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If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

Pagan had to do the clean-out and he could not bring in 20 x 17 year olds, first there are not that many around worth considering and second he had to have some seasoned heads and bodies in the side to protect the youth he did pick up.

You have to keep the majority of those recycled players for this reason over the next few years.

The guy is doing a great job under extremely difficult circumstances. It's going to take time and frankly you do not have a choice -- there is no quick fix.

The way forward is:
- astute drafting with the low picks you will get
- hard nosed dealing in the PSD like the Stevens pick-up, and
- hard-nosed trading of Campo and Lance for early picks
- make sure you keep the young cream you have like Fev & TBird

I think Pagan is the man with the intestinal steel to pull it off.

It's 3 years back to the eight, not 3 years to the flag!