Absolutley correct. If we do not start acting like a professional organisation we will be left behind. Accountability from the top down is very important in ensuring that as supporters we know that the right people are always leading our club.

It is one thing to blame Ratten...and lets face it ,he has a lot to learn as is plainly obvious..but I just wanted to highlight that if the decision to employ him was made without profesionalism then Ratten is merely the result of whimsical decision making.

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"Truth, for the tyrants, is the most terrible and cruel of all bindings; it is like an incandescent iron falling across their chests. And it is even more agonizing than hot iron, for that only burns the flesh, while truth burns its way into the soul"     — Lauro Aguirre

Ratten "needed answers" did he??
Thats laughable.....

What he was going back to Norwood in the Eastern Suburban League was he?
He was AFL unemployed till Sticks got him back into the system .
Voss was first choice.
They were knocked back by Voss so Ratts hurried us into a decision cos he "needed answers"???? funny...

Same kind of hurrying into a decision for an extension as well i take it???

(Cos he had options there too?) he was going somewhere else if we didnt extend his contract was he???.... headhunted he would have been... offered more by another club???

Yeah all makes sense...

Really... thats tooth fairy stuff...

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

That's history...you know it happened. But read my post again...rumour, innuendo...the Voss approach was where the lack of professionalism lay. Swann didn't want any of that...he prefers to drive the rumour train rather than have it coming in the form of tabloid 'Caro', 'Smith' and 'Hutchy' articles. You know that too.



You tell us Synbad



Think you'll find the recommendation came from David Parkin that Ratts was AFL ready. Again...Carlton nepotism...it works well sometimes...it doesn't for others...in this instance - the jury is still out.

David Parkin recommended him?


Ok thats great!!!!...

Want me to tell you what? Im not following.....

The question is why did we re-sign Ratts so soon after he had proven nothing...

Like he was given a 2 year contract under a dubious selection process. (BAD ENOUGHT)
So why after having proven nothing and about 12 weeks into a non stellar career would you extend it????

No you tell me...

And ... thats not the doozy... the doozy is it doesnt matter if he had a contract or not cos under the circumstances .. i cant see anyone tapping him on the shoulder anyway....can you????

Cos there are no real checks and balances in the whole set up and the process..

Now maybe if Ratts was someone else.. and had won our prized coaching job.. (cos i dunno about you or others who think its something to just give away.....).. but i think it should be a prize and treated like one...

... maybe if the due dilligence was made and someone actually won our PRIZED JOB.. the man who is in charge of turning young men into champions and this club into a champion side.. id be more believing..

But unfortunately the job was treated like a lotto ticket and was gifted to a mate... without all the checks and balances put int place.. and all due dilligence required to pay respect to what is one of the three most crucial positions at the club.
So how can i believe in him?

And over and above that because those in power handing the position out as cheaply lose credibility also.

Cos thats how it goes...

Now Sticks can duck and weave about bringing in O'Reilly to the club .. and once when asked if he was responsible he did the predictable thing and replied "We were all responsible for bringing OReilly to the club"
The person that asked him the question asked again... "All; of you?"
"All of us " answered Sticks.
To which the guy that asked the question replied if all of you can get together and make that decision without a single person arguing he wasnt even a regular player.. the lot of you should fall onto your swords"

See its all about common sense isnt it?
Whilst it might be a good idea on the surface to just appoint Ratten ... the common sense approach would be to do it right... and that way whoever gets wins job has no questions over his suitability....

Its always answers like "Parkin thinks he was the right man"... its pretty funny and sad at the same time....

I hope Ratts turns it around... but really hes always going to be under the pump unless he can turn it around as his position was delivered to him without due dilligence.
And the decision makers should not be allowed to decide on crucial matters concerning the club in that manner again... its detrimental to our great club and its not very hard to turn into a Richmond...

Terrible decisions in the past have cost us in our modern history... we dont need them perpetuatiing themselves cos of a Boys Club mentality.

Ratts can right it ... but he will need to win a flag!!!

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Have to agree.

In any case Ratts has set the bar high this year by claiming that nothing short of finals will be acceptable. If we don not make finals and it would seem we most likely won't...he should be assessed accordingly. I really hope that Swann is in control of the big decisions because if he aint then we haven't really gone forward as we were all lead to believe.

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"Truth, for the tyrants, is the most terrible and cruel of all bindings; it is like an incandescent iron falling across their chests. And it is even more agonizing than hot iron, for that only burns the flesh, while truth burns its way into the soul"     — Lauro Aguirre

Fact is though, that if 'the process' had been transparent and Ratten was still appointed - you'd be screaming blue murder that the 'wrong man' was chosen for the job and that it was all just 'jobs for the boys' anyway...or 'why the hell are we interviewing Peter Sumich?' ...there's no pleasing some people.



Kind of glass half empty thing to say about a team that's still on the up and hasn't dropped out of the 8 thus far. Nevertheless...he and the playing group have said it. Finals is a must...on that we can agree. I still expect us to make it.

We are 9th.

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"Truth, for the tyrants, is the most terrible and cruel of all bindings; it is like an incandescent iron falling across their chests. And it is even more agonizing than hot iron, for that only burns the flesh, while truth burns its way into the soul"     — Lauro Aguirre

And it's only R9....gee, seems an impossible task from here.

Yeah well 2 out of 7 isnt a great .. not being abe to kick out is a bit of a worry... same with struggling in knowing what to do going forward.... lucky we have eddie the 'boundary snap artist'....and if u have had your eye on the calendar we get to play some more organised football sides... in the very near future...


anyway... as long as you think everything is going swimmingly....i suppose..

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

I still like and respect Parkin for coaching Carlton flags, but he does lack credibility these days:

Parko said Brittain was the man for the job - I actually think Britts was unlucky, but still...

Parko said we should trade pick 6 for O'Keefe in a straight swap (I believe)

Parko preferred mature hardened bodies to kids who might play for 10 years, and ready made young players who could do a job and maybe carry our old champs to the top one more time - Freeborn, O'Reilly, Mansfield, Franchina, Fletcher, Hotton, Vance, Devonport, Culpitt.

Parko oversaw (with the nudging of Elliot) the worst list management in the league - even worse than Freo

Parko, after some years of silence, finally admitted that his approach was one of the main reasons our list became the worst AFL list in the decade and a half since Fitzroy disappeared.

I'll always have a soft spot for Parkin, and he used to be a pretty smart operator, but how could anyone trust his judgement given his form over the past decade?

Things are certainly not going swimmingly (is that a real word dude... ) we have been slipping down the ladder since round two. My problem is I keep trying not to blame Ratten because I have faith in those who put him there..but that faith will only hold out till seasons end and that faith will then be based soley on our performance/result.

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"Truth, for the tyrants, is the most terrible and cruel of all bindings; it is like an incandescent iron falling across their chests. And it is even more agonizing than hot iron, for that only burns the flesh, while truth burns its way into the soul"     — Lauro Aguirre

Listening to Parkin on the radio, I think he has his Hawthorn scarf on much more than his Carlton one these days

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Cheats never prosper (except in the AFL)

I still reckon we arnt good enough
and
Thornton
Wiggins
Stevens
Russell
Hadley
are not good enough

The first half showed a distinct lack of effort and we were pathetic
We have gone backwards
We desperately need a forward structure that works
Having a forward line there to start with would be a bonus
Kreuzer must play CHF. He just has to
Hampson must play more in the ruck
I would instruct Hampson to run with Cox for as long as possible in a tagging role

Eventually Judd was going to have a bad day.
This means the other mids needed to step up
Stevens did to some extent
Murphy tried to in the secondhalf
I would put Gibbs on Kerr or Embley in a tagging role because I dont think he is up to it In the middle at the moment
We were smashed in the clearences and physicaaly not in the contest
Would love to see Joseph on the ball
Armfield in the packs
Ratten was too slow and not prepared to try enough things
With the wind in the first quarter we were pansed so we had to try somethings different

I don't think you hope Ratts turns it around at all to be honest. You want Sticks gone and by extension Ratts as well.

Just as it can be argued that some are giving Ratten too much leeway due to past service to the club, to you he will always be tainted due to his links to Sticks and his questionable selection process. I totally agree that due diligence wasn't done and that was a worry, but that also doesn't mean he can't coach. Despite evidence to the contrary in the first half against the Crows

I also agree with your statements in other threads that you don't surround an inexperienced coach with inexperienced assistants. The Lappo appointment to me was a puzzling one. I'm not sure how being a key member of the worst team in our history, who used an antiquated gameplan (only slight exaggeration ) gets you a gig. Not to mention being put in charge of the forwards when he is good mates with Fev Teague's appointment could also be questioned, but from what I have seen he is a very impressive young man, who communicates well and seems to be doing a good job with the Ants. He could be an example of the appointment process being wrong, but the outcome being right Time will tell.

You raise some good points Synbad, but just like those who you see as Ratten apologists, you have your own biases. I really don't think Ratten will ever win you over... no matter what he does.

You do realise i want wahts best for the club dont you?
% wise i doubt Ratten and Sticks are best for the club .(underqualified and have their spots due to mateship circumstances)Sticks is in the box often enough... and he is president..!!!... hes a bozo as a president.. i do not question his loyalty to the club.. just his fingerprints are on everything thats wrong.....or strange... including his standing as president.
We have turned alot around off field and that didnt come because of mates.
On field where mates can still have an impact i BELIEVE were treading water.

If Ratts can turn it around im happy.... but i seriously doubt it. He is illustrating how out of his depth he is and if we dont make the finals this year... year wasted!!!

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

I'm reading this thread and had to look to see what thread I was in as it seems eerily like the Ratts can't coach thread.

Or perhaps the same argument going on in that thread is also going in here.

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“It is a state of mind, a system of belief, a way of seeing the world, a deep faith that, because you are Carlton, you belong to something great.” - Mike Fitzpatrick articulating what Out of the Blue means.

Perhaps youre not reading it closely enough?

There was an appointment made by friends of an ex player with decision making powers to a guy with questionable skills to coach us. Thats unprofessional and if it goes belly up it moves up tthe scale to Negligence.

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Without meaning any harm to Sticks, well he's now the Prez (amazingly enough), so he carries the can, and he must be held accountable for the key decisions he's overseen in recent years. Yes, he helped bring Dick Pratt to the club. I'm sure he's done other good things and other things well as a board member, president, football director, match committeeman (sometimes all at once ).

But FFS, he should have been ousted in 2002. Apparently he's mates with everyone, and he may have held things together when CFC was a house divided. Nobody else could get elected witout his support. But he's the hairy, boozy club mascot these days, and he's the president of the flowering club .

Maybe he's still needed for stability until we get a real president, but getting on the piss with the players, sitting in the coaches box, still involved with (on?) match committee, hiring mates without process...he's like Peter Pan - he never moves on. Why would he? All those things are fun, and nobody told him to stop playing with his toys.

Is the bar set that high coming off ten wins from last season? I would call it natural progression due to the state of our list in that there is scope for plenty of improvement from within. I would say top 4 is setting the bar high.

You're trying to hard now. RELAX. Just go with the flow DUC