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PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 5:24 pm 
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John Nicholls

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:52 am
Posts: 9112
Location: Nth Fitzroy
maxyblue wrote:
when the teams were announced i thought to myself that we were loading up in midfield in order to put in a place a hawthorn style structure to nullify their pace and prevent them getting clean F50 entries to an out of form lloyd / lucas combo. i thought that ratts would be using the loss of jamo to effect a serious match-day trial of the full zone that we had been working on during the pre-season. of course i may be horribly wrong about ratts intention, but that's how i read it.

hawks won a flag with croad / gilham / brown as KPPs. i saw with my own eyes how pox croad and gilham were when exposed to a 1 on 1 contest, but the hawks have perfected the ability to prevent the opposition from having clean, effective F50 entries. i don't really believe that gilham and croad are elite, A-level defenders. to me they're roughly on a par with thornton et al, perhaps a bit more composed etc but mainly as a result of circumstance.

so what happened with us last night? well, obviously first and foremost there was the debilitating effects of a marketing slogan gone horribly wrong which has sunk many a team in my 40 odd years of following the blues. those marketing slogans are like a formidable CHF, impossible to stop. i'm sure the footy dept will look to cut it's losses at year's end and trade our slogan to norf for 2 top 10 picks and a couple of tix to their next chook raffle. but we can't do anything about this pesky slogan for now, so i may look at other aspects of our game that we can change ...

as stated above, to me ratts wanted to kill their run with a hawthorn like zonal setup (again i emphasize that i may be horribly wrong here). that kind of system would've worked very well against their chip / run and carry game. BUT it needs the right personnel to pull it off. this zone can be as much canon fodder as pagans paddock if it's implementation is haphazard.

we lost the game last night in the midfield. by that i don't mean winning stoppages etc, cos i think we actually won those. we lost it cos our mids were either unprepared or incapable of imposing a structure which would restrict / nullify their pattern of play when they HAD the ball.

the use of stevens as a qtr back is the most ill-considered structural element by our MC. why? cos stevo spends all of his time WITHOUT the ball just ball watching. in today's zonal game what you do when you haven't got the ball is almost as important as what you do when you have it.

i actually, and masochistically, tuned into the fox replay into the 3rd and heard walls lament the clean run at the mark that lloyd was allowed all night. that mark lloyd took in the 3rd with 3 scum players in the pack was a total indictment on our back 6. sure, ryder may well have taken that mark. and if he's gonna jump 2 feet above everyone else then fair play to him. BUT, how lloyd was able to get an unimpeded run at that contest in UNFORGIVABLE in this day!! this is where the hawks excel. as i've seen so often, even a spud like guerra will play a role for the team and create some kind of speed hump for a gun like fev, thereby denying him that clean run / jump to the ball. then hodge would just come in from the side and effect a perfect spoil without a mclaren flower to turn it into a 17 goal play without a centre bounce.

i reckon ratts was setting up to crowd their midfield and F50 so that lloyd / lucas wouldn't have clean footy delievered to them. he was banking on an out of form lloyd becoming even more despondent and that his sooky body language deflating the rest of them. perhaps the 1st qtr was too easy for a profligate carlton, but after that they just cut through our half-assed attempts at playing zone football.

we simply had too many guys running ahead of the ball and got carved up on the rebound as a result of our lack of clean hands. i watched that goal kicked by grigg and noticed that at the moment he kicked the ball he had 3 other mids running ahead of the ball screaming for the easy take. if grigg had missed we were wide open to a coast to coast rebound from FB line. if grigg had missed our structure was hopelessly out of whack.

this zonal game requires personnel with a tremendous structural and tactical discipline. sadly, i don't think guys like stevo, scotto, carrots, houla have that in them. they are classic players who chase the footy and stats. not saying that's a bad thing, but you need guys who do not ball watch, who do not act as passengers when they don't have the ball. you need guys with mongrel who will chop and block and make life extremely hard for opposition forwards. if a stevo or a johnson put some kind of block on lloyd then we can hope that the ball goes to ground and a turnover is effected. this is effectively what Essendon* did in the 2nd half having fletcher double team fev and allowind dempsey to mop up.

ratts needs to decide that if he's to play a zonal game then he needs to put the right personnel down back / midfield and play stevo as a wing / HF etc interchanging with houla. our midfield was embarrassing last night within the context of the modern game, ie discipline (incl structural) and the other attributes contained within the subject line of this thread



Thats a good post. Ratts said in the presser that we lost our structure and the players were not setting up as they are taught.
Playing more games together and gelling is the only way we are going to get better at this. There are going to be some hick up along the way and with young bodies and minds there are gong to be games where we just dont have the tenacity and strength to gang tackle like round one and two.

The dons backline consisted of Daniher who was getting brushed aside by fev as though he wasnt there and Fletcher who is not much chop these days yet the dons still won on the night. Like Ratts said, letting them run out of our fwd line with flow iswas what killed us.

Need to work on them Midfield and forward line structures.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 5:29 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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Big Kahuna Boot wrote:
..don't get on Melvos case.. ..he's right, we did have our pants pulled down.. ..sure, we lost by only four points but it's not the margin, but the way we let them play us.. ....as another said, we's essenbum's biatches, pure and simple.. ..they're gettin' the wood on us, even when they shouldn't.. ..pants down, around zee ankles.. ..pitiful blues last night.. ..everyone bar Judd should get twenty lashes..


A great arguemnet about football logic and the mechanics of the game.....NOT :roll:

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 9:00 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Decided to watch the game from the heady atmosphere of the very top of the Ponsford last night and what I witnessesed in the first quarter was amazing.

Watching from on high you can see exactly how the game plan is working and the discipline and structure of what the Blues were doing in the first quarter was sensational. I've never seen anything like it, even a doofus like me could see exactly what certain players were meant to be doing for certain plays.

Watching the second quarter was also amazing.

Mainly because, where there used to be structure there was none.

It completely broke down.

Watched the second half from ground level so do not know for sure if it continued in the same manner, but from that angle it seemed to be much the same.

Not sure why that was allowed to happen in the second half.

Either we did not try to implement the first quarter structure again or Essendon* simply found a way to break our game plan down and we did not have a Plan B?

Bombers kicked 2.7 in the last quarter, they should have flogged us by 4 or 5 goals, they were clearly the better team on the night.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 9:35 pm 
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formerly King Kenny
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Jarusa wrote:
Decided to watch the game from the heady atmosphere of the very top of the Ponsford last night and what I witnessesed in the first quarter was amazing.

Watching from on high you can see exactly how the game plan is working and the discipline and structure of what the Blues were doing in the first quarter was sensational. I've never seen anything like it, even a doofus like me could see exactly what certain players were meant to be doing for certain plays.

Watching the second quarter was also amazing.

Mainly because, where there used to be structure there was none.

It completely broke down.

Watched the second half from ground level so do not know for sure if it continued in the same manner, but from that angle it seemed to be much the same.

Not sure why that was allowed to happen in the second half.

Either we did not try to implement the first quarter structure again or Essendon* simply found a way to break our game plan down and we did not have a Plan B?

Bombers kicked 2.7 in the last quarter, they should have flogged us by 4 or 5 goals, they were clearly the better team on the night.


I watched from the same spot and agree with everything but the flog part, they were never going to break away from us, they aren't good enough.

The third quarter we had under control IMO until T-Birds courageous spoil on Llyold. Would love to see that umpire on SEN explain that decision.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 7:20 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Sun May 22, 2005 11:58 pm
Posts: 4058
Location: South Yarra
Rafalution wrote:
Jarusa wrote:
Decided to watch the game from the heady atmosphere of the very top of the Ponsford last night and what I witnessesed in the first quarter was amazing.

Watching from on high you can see exactly how the game plan is working and the discipline and structure of what the Blues were doing in the first quarter was sensational. I've never seen anything like it, even a doofus like me could see exactly what certain players were meant to be doing for certain plays.

Watching the second quarter was also amazing.

Mainly because, where there used to be structure there was none.

It completely broke down.

Watched the second half from ground level so do not know for sure if it continued in the same manner, but from that angle it seemed to be much the same.

Not sure why that was allowed to happen in the second half.

Either we did not try to implement the first quarter structure again or Essendon* simply found a way to break our game plan down and we did not have a Plan B?

Bombers kicked 2.7 in the last quarter, they should have flogged us by 4 or 5 goals, they were clearly the better team on the night.


I watched from the same spot and agree with everything but the flog part, they were never going to break away from us, they aren't good enough.

The third quarter we had under control IMO until T-Birds courageous spoil on Llyold. Would love to see that umpire on SEN explain that decision.


Greart thread guys and excellent post by MaxyBlue.

Agree with you Jarusa we were superb for most of Q1 should have led by 40 pts at qtr time. By 3 qtr time I said that we deserved to lose through shocking discipline, bad kicking and letting Lovett in particular cut us up from half back. We on the other hand lost all run from qtr time. And yes, they should have buried us in the last, they missed some sitters and hit the post multiple times in the last. If we had scrounged the winning goal at the end it would have been a steal. Hate to say it we deserved to lose and Dons deserved to win.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 7:41 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2007 9:12 pm
Posts: 4426
maxyblue wrote:
when the teams were announced i thought to myself that we were loading up in midfield in order to put in a place a hawthorn style structure to nullify their pace and prevent them getting clean F50 entries to an out of form lloyd / lucas combo. i thought that ratts would be using the loss of jamo to effect a serious match-day trial of the full zone that we had been working on during the pre-season. of course i may be horribly wrong about ratts intention, but that's how i read it.

hawks won a flag with croad / gilham / brown as KPPs. i saw with my own eyes how pox croad and gilham were when exposed to a 1 on 1 contest, but the hawks have perfected the ability to prevent the opposition from having clean, effective F50 entries. i don't really believe that gilham and croad are elite, A-level defenders. to me they're roughly on a par with thornton et al, perhaps a bit more composed etc but mainly as a result of circumstance.

so what happened with us last night? well, obviously first and foremost there was the debilitating effects of a marketing slogan gone horribly wrong which has sunk many a team in my 40 odd years of following the blues. those marketing slogans are like a formidable CHF, impossible to stop. i'm sure the footy dept will look to cut it's losses at year's end and trade our slogan to norf for 2 top 10 picks and a couple of tix to their next chook raffle. but we can't do anything about this pesky slogan for now, so i may look at other aspects of our game that we can change ...

as stated above, to me ratts wanted to kill their run with a hawthorn like zonal setup (again i emphasize that i may be horribly wrong here). that kind of system would've worked very well against their chip / run and carry game. BUT it needs the right personnel to pull it off. this zone can be as much canon fodder as pagans paddock if it's implementation is haphazard.

we lost the game last night in the midfield. by that i don't mean winning stoppages etc, cos i think we actually won those. we lost it cos our mids were either unprepared or incapable of imposing a structure which would restrict / nullify their pattern of play when they HAD the ball.

the use of stevens as a qtr back is the most ill-considered structural element by our MC. why? cos stevo spends all of his time WITHOUT the ball just ball watching. in today's zonal game what you do when you haven't got the ball is almost as important as what you do when you have it.

i actually, and masochistically, tuned into the fox replay into the 3rd and heard walls lament the clean run at the mark that lloyd was allowed all night. that mark lloyd took in the 3rd with 3 scum players in the pack was a total indictment on our back 6. sure, ryder may well have taken that mark. and if he's gonna jump 2 feet above everyone else then fair play to him. BUT, how lloyd was able to get an unimpeded run at that contest in UNFORGIVABLE in this day!! this is where the hawks excel. as i've seen so often, even a spud like guerra will play a role for the team and create some kind of speed hump for a gun like fev, thereby denying him that clean run / jump to the ball. then hodge would just come in from the side and effect a perfect spoil without a mclaren flower to turn it into a 17 goal play without a centre bounce.

i reckon ratts was setting up to crowd their midfield and F50 so that lloyd / lucas wouldn't have clean footy delievered to them. he was banking on an out of form lloyd becoming even more despondent and that his sooky body language deflating the rest of them. perhaps the 1st qtr was too easy for a profligate carlton, but after that they just cut through our half-assed attempts at playing zone football.

we simply had too many guys running ahead of the ball and got carved up on the rebound as a result of our lack of clean hands. i watched that goal kicked by grigg and noticed that at the moment he kicked the ball he had 3 other mids running ahead of the ball screaming for the easy take. if grigg had missed we were wide open to a coast to coast rebound from FB line. if grigg had missed our structure was hopelessly out of whack.

this zonal game requires personnel with a tremendous structural and tactical discipline. sadly, i don't think guys like stevo, scotto, carrots, houla have that in them. they are classic players who chase the footy and stats. not saying that's a bad thing, but you need guys who do not ball watch, who do not act as passengers when they don't have the ball. you need guys with mongrel who will chop and block and make life extremely hard for opposition forwards. if a stevo or a johnson put some kind of block on lloyd then we can hope that the ball goes to ground and a turnover is effected. this is effectively what Essendon* did in the 2nd half having fletcher double team fev and allowind dempsey to mop up.

ratts needs to decide that if he's to play a zonal game then he needs to put the right personnel down back / midfield and play stevo as a wing / HF etc interchanging with houla. our midfield was embarrassing last night within the context of the modern game, ie discipline (incl structural) and the other attributes contained within the subject line of this thread


My thoughts exactly regarding Stevens...if we are to play him at all (and I am all for it)..his role is as you have stated across HF changing with his twin Houla. Stevens would also be very effective as pinch hitter in the middle...but down back??? FFS...guys like Stevo Scotland and other simililar types should never be used in defence...period!

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 8:27 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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Melvey wrote:
move on bruva


If only you could? But instead its back to trolling over the membership slogan, and now how Daniel Rich would have made all the difference on Saturday

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Essendon* cheated, simple as that


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 8:58 pm 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2006 6:03 pm
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Location: East Brunwick
Megaman wrote:
Melvey wrote:
move on bruva


If only you could? But instead its back to trolling over the membership slogan, and now how Daniel Rich would have made all the difference on Saturday


Not just a difference on Saturday but the next 10 years.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 1:58 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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Big Kahuna Boot wrote:
..don't get on Melvos case.. ..he's right, we did have our pants pulled down.. ..sure, we lost by only four points but it's not the margin, but the way we let them play us.. ....as another said, we's essenbum's biatches, pure and simple.. ..they're gettin' the wood on us, even when they shouldn't.. ..pants down, around zee ankles.. ..pitiful blues last night.. ..everyone bar Judd should get twenty lashes..



that's what we're talking about :clap:

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 12:51 pm 
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Bert Deacon
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Big Kahuna Boot wrote:
..don't get on Melvos case.. ..he's right, we did have our pants pulled down.. ..sure, we lost by only four points but it's not the margin, but the way we let them play us.. ....as another said, we's essenbum's biatches, pure and simple.. ..they're gettin' the wood on us, even when they shouldn't.. ..pants down, around zee ankles.. ..pitiful blues last night.. ..everyone bar Judd should get twenty lashes..


It's not the players' fault: I defy anyone to run with their pants around their ankles... :smoking:

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 3:38 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 10:26 am
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Location: Comparing orange boners with Hirdy
Melvey wrote:
Megaman wrote:
Melvey wrote:
move on bruva


If only you could? But instead its back to trolling over the membership slogan, and now how Daniel Rich would have made all the difference on Saturday


Not just a difference on Saturday but the next 10 years.


At least you're not denying trolling about the membership slogan

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Greg Swann wrote:
Essendon* cheated, simple as that


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 4:01 pm 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2006 6:03 pm
Posts: 3510
Location: East Brunwick
Megaman wrote:
Melvey wrote:
Megaman wrote:
Melvey wrote:
move on bruva


If only you could? But instead its back to trolling over the membership slogan, and now how Daniel Rich would have made all the difference on Saturday


Not just a difference on Saturday but the next 10 years.


At least you're not denying trolling about the membership slogan


I HATE THE MEMBERSHIP SLOGAN.

I DESPISE THE PERSON WHO OK'D THE HERALD SUNS REQUEST FOR A PHOTO OF THE SO CALLED FAB FOUR FOR HIRDY'S ARTICLE.

I LOVE BBQ RIB SAUCE


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 4:10 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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GUYS!!! Please stick to some sensible posting instead of this incessant schoolyard bickering.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 4:24 pm 
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Robert Walls

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Mrs Caz wrote:
GUYS!!! Please stick to some sensible posting instead of this incessant schoolyard bickering.


i think its sensible posting


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 4:28 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Better change your way of thinking then.....I know you can do it, I have seen some sensible posts from you. :thumbsup:


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 4:31 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Woop WOOP WOOP.........!


kindest regards tommi

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 4:33 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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You too :cool:


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 4:54 pm 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2006 6:03 pm
Posts: 3510
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Mrs Caz wrote:
Better change your way of thinking then.....I know you can do it, I have seen some sensible posts from you. :thumbsup:


YOU CAN DO IT!


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