BRING BACK THE NOTCHES

murraycray · **Posted:** Tue Jan 20, 2009 5:36 pm

lily of laguna wrote:

murraycray wrote:

johntall wrote:

Rumour has it that the current "circumcised" monogram that replaced the "notches" monogram was instigated by a board member keen to "modernise" the corporate logo. It was done during a dark period of Carlton's history, and was nothing more than a desperate act to look as though the committee was actually doing things. The process involved getting out a ball point pen and filling in the offending notches. No designers were engaged. No research gathered. Just a desperate act by a self important official. Last year I spoke to a Carlton big-wig and he told me that the "notches" monogram remained the favoured version, but fact was we were 'stuck' with the current monogram. He encouraged me, and supporters, to contact the big man himself and push for restoration of the "notches" logo.

I contacted Stephen Gough more than once to compain when the monogram was changed. We exchanged
a few '' in your face '' type letters, and had some robust phone conversations.
My contention at the time was the club letterhead had simply been transferred to the club guensey, a point which Goughie eventually conceded.
Each version of the monogram over the past decade has looked cheaper and inferior to the previous one.

Why someone within the club would bring about this bastardisation of the club guernsey is beyond me.

How should a Carlton monogram look? As i have posted previously, have a look at any photo of John Nicholls
in action, it doesn't get any better than that.

Murraycray if you look on carltonfc.com under the Mamma Mia headline you will see a picture of a footy card with John Nicholls on it.

The thing is the mongram looks very much like todays version 'sans' notches.

I think the one you are referring to has a squashed pointy looking C in it, is this right?

Personally I think the 1 J nicholls is wearing on the CFC website is great and looks like todays version!!

L O L i am familiar with the swap card of Big Nick you refer to, but that jumper was never worn in a league match.
I was referring to any VFL match or Team photo of John Nicholls.

lily of laguna · **Joined:** Tue Apr 24, 2007 4:37 pm **Posts:** 417

murraycray wrote:

lily of laguna wrote:

murraycray wrote:

johntall wrote:

Rumour has it that the current "circumcised" monogram that replaced the "notches" monogram was instigated by a board member keen to "modernise" the corporate logo. It was done during a dark period of Carlton's history, and was nothing more than a desperate act to look as though the committee was actually doing things. The process involved getting out a ball point pen and filling in the offending notches. No designers were engaged. No research gathered. Just a desperate act by a self important official. Last year I spoke to a Carlton big-wig and he told me that the "notches" monogram remained the favoured version, but fact was we were 'stuck' with the current monogram. He encouraged me, and supporters, to contact the big man himself and push for restoration of the "notches" logo.

I contacted Stephen Gough more than once to compain when the monogram was changed. We exchanged
a few '' in your face '' type letters, and had some robust phone conversations.
My contention at the time was the club letterhead had simply been transferred to the club guensey, a point which Goughie eventually conceded.
Each version of the monogram over the past decade has looked cheaper and inferior to the previous one.

Why someone within the club would bring about this bastardisation of the club guernsey is beyond me.

How should a Carlton monogram look? As i have posted previously, have a look at any photo of John Nicholls
in action, it doesn't get any better than that.

Murraycray if you look on carltonfc.com under the Mamma Mia headline you will see a picture of a footy card with John Nicholls on it.

The thing is the mongram looks very much like todays version 'sans' notches.

I think the one you are referring to has a squashed pointy looking C in it, is this right?

Personally I think the 1 J nicholls is wearing on the CFC website is great and looks like todays version!!

L O L i am familiar with the swap card of Big Nick you refer to, but that jumper was never worn in a league match.
I was referring to any VFL match or Team photo of John Nicholls.

Is that the squashed pointy C version? I like the fact the that the monogram is thick and bold but the squashed look isnt for me.

murraycray · **Posted:** Tue Jan 20, 2009 8:42 pm

lily of laguna wrote:

murraycray wrote:

lily of laguna wrote:

murraycray wrote:

johntall wrote:

Rumour has it that the current "circumcised" monogram that replaced the "notches" monogram was instigated by a board member keen to "modernise" the corporate logo. It was done during a dark period of Carlton's history, and was nothing more than a desperate act to look as though the committee was actually doing things. The process involved getting out a ball point pen and filling in the offending notches. No designers were engaged. No research gathered. Just a desperate act by a self important official. Last year I spoke to a Carlton big-wig and he told me that the "notches" monogram remained the favoured version, but fact was we were 'stuck' with the current monogram. He encouraged me, and supporters, to contact the big man himself and push for restoration of the "notches" logo.

I contacted Stephen Gough more than once to compain when the monogram was changed. We exchanged
a few '' in your face '' type letters, and had some robust phone conversations.
My contention at the time was the club letterhead had simply been transferred to the club guensey, a point which Goughie eventually conceded.
Each version of the monogram over the past decade has looked cheaper and inferior to the previous one.

Why someone within the club would bring about this bastardisation of the club guernsey is beyond me.

How should a Carlton monogram look? As i have posted previously, have a look at any photo of John Nicholls
in action, it doesn't get any better than that.

Murraycray if you look on carltonfc.com under the Mamma Mia headline you will see a picture of a footy card with John Nicholls on it.

The thing is the mongram looks very much like todays version 'sans' notches.

I think the one you are referring to has a squashed pointy looking C in it, is this right?

Personally I think the 1 J nicholls is wearing on the CFC website is great and looks like todays version!!

L O L i am familiar with the swap card of Big Nick you refer to, but that jumper was never worn in a league match.
I was referring to any VFL match or Team photo of John Nicholls.

Is that the squashed pointy C version? I like the fact the that the monogram is thick and bold but the squashed look isnt for me.

Oh dear. LoL the one I'm referring to is the one that we have worn in 8 premierships in my lifetime. The one presently worn is the one worn while ''winning'' 3 wooden spoons.
I recall Leon Wiegard being asked who in his opinion had the best uniform in the league.
He said Carlton were the CLASSIEST looking side in the comp. A fair compliment from an opposition Prez.
Sadly, IMO that's no longer the case.

Princes Park Whistler · **Posted:** Wed Jan 21, 2009 2:02 pm

Right there with you Murray Cray. Bring back that magnificent jumper worn during all those premierships. I wrote a letter to Greg Swann on this issue last year and he replied saying they were reviewing the current jumper but nothing has changed. Now could be a good time for that petition. Agro, the heritage jumper worn against Essendon* 2 years ago shows you can mass produce the old style jumper and have a uniform emblem if thats what the major concern was. You just shouldn`t tamper with something as sacred as the jumper and without any input from the members. And while i`m at it,surely there is an ethical alternative to Nike as a sponsor and supplier.

Kaptain Kouta · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 12:41 pm **Posts:** 63509

I know I've said it before, but I'm going to say it again anyway.

If the Club want to show the modern "notchless" monogram, but tie it in with the 1920-97 jumper monogram, they should do something like this:

Which is the modern monogram squashed down. This version was in an official CFC email.

For mine, it looks far stronger and more balanced than the current jumper monogram. And it harks back to the glory days we're all pining for.

AGRO · **Posted:** Thu Jan 22, 2009 12:46 pm

Princes Park Whistler wrote:

Agro, the heritage jumper worn against Essendon* 2 years ago shows you can mass produce the old style jumper and have a uniform emblem if thats what the major concern was.

No you have missed my point - the jumper we wore right up till 1997 with the hand cut emblem is an accident of circumstance in that when it was created back in the 1920s you couldnt reproduce our traditional logo with the notches on to a jumper. So they made do with the easier to produce (for the time) hand cut emblem which was stitched to the jumper.

My contention is that when we re-designed our jumper in 1997 that featured the CFC emblem with the notches we actually were finally after 70 years producing the jumper we should have had in the first place with the proper CFC logo.

PD'sPC · **Posted:** Thu Jan 22, 2009 1:29 pm

AGRO wrote:

Princes Park Whistler wrote:

Agro, the heritage jumper worn against Essendon* 2 years ago shows you can mass produce the old style jumper and have a uniform emblem if thats what the major concern was.

No you have missed my point - the jumper we wore right up till 1997 with the hand cut emblem is an accident of circumstance in that when it was created back in the 1920s you couldnt reproduce our traditional logo with the notches on to a jumper. So they made do with the easier to produce (for the time) hand cut emblem which was stitched to the jumper.

My contention is that when we re-designed our jumper in 1997 that featured the CFC emblem with the notches we actually were finally after 70 years producing the jumper we should have had in the first place with the proper CFC logo.

Interesting how we're all alluding to the history of the jumper, most eloquently stated by Agro. And that is what it is about... the history. History which shows that the last 11 flags were won by wearing that magnificent emblem, enshrined by the likes of Chitty, Hands, Nicholls, Jezza, et al. I'm with you MurrayCray, bring back that hand-produced version! :thumbsup:

JohnM · **Posted:** Thu Jan 22, 2009 1:50 pm

To me, the hand-produced CFC jumper is the single greatest sight in VFL/AFL history.

Bold, strong, proud, unmistakable. It has both the aura of premiership success and the benefit of being a part of our modern (1970 onwards) history.

It has the singularity, solidity and simplicity of a sash or stripes, but it says so much more.

There's a reason why football followers always used to grudgingly accept that our jumper was the league's best. And it was THAT cfc. Not the weak, insipid collection of whale-bones that is our current jumper design.

Princes Park Whistler · **Posted:** Thu Jan 22, 2009 5:42 pm

JohnM wrote:

To me, the hand-produced CFC jumper is the single greatest sight in VFL/AFL history.

Bold, strong, proud, unmistakable. It has both the aura of premiership success and the benefit of being a part of our modern (1970 onwards) history.

It has the singularity, solidity and simplicity of a sash or stripes, but it says so much more.

There's a reason why football followers always used to grudgingly accept that our jumper was the league's best. And it was THAT cfc. Not the weak, insipid collection of whale-bones that is our current jumper design.

Great post John,totally agree. Could we at least bring back the hand produced jumper for clashes against the traditional rivals(Coll,Ess,Rich)? Would keep all parties happy + merchandise sales etc. Hawthorn and Richmond have gone back to their old style jumpers,so should we.

SparkyBlue · **Posted:** Mon Jan 26, 2009 1:31 am

Pfft.

Same team.

Minor issues with the jumper design.

As long as the team is the Carlton Blues I couldn't give a fat rat's clacker if they wore Navy Blue mumu's...

johntall · **Posted:** Mon Jan 26, 2009 7:50 am

Princes Park Whistler wrote:

JohnM wrote:

To me, the hand-produced CFC jumper is the single greatest sight in VFL/AFL history.

Bold, strong, proud, unmistakable. It has both the aura of premiership success and the benefit of being a part of our modern (1970 onwards) history.

It has the singularity, solidity and simplicity of a sash or stripes, but it says so much more.

There's a reason why football followers always used to grudgingly accept that our jumper was the league's best. And it was THAT cfc. Not the weak, insipid collection of whale-bones that is our current jumper design.

Great post John,totally agree. Could we at least bring back the hand produced jumper for clashes against the traditional rivals(Coll,Ess,Rich)? Would keep all parties happy + merchandise sales etc. Hawthorn and Richmond have gone back to their old style jumpers,so should we.

What a unique idea. The net effect will be the dumping of the 'whale bones' monogram, once people see the difference.

bluehammer · **Posted:** Mon Jan 26, 2009 9:30 am

Jarusa wrote:

bluehammer wrote:

Here is the original argument

http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=6580

... and here are even originalier arguments. :lol:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=13858
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=15465
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7362
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11529

just to name a few!

Well yes. Created after the original :-P

'Notches'. Yes, not the correct word. I guess 'Serifs' is the correct term for them.

But notches sounds better than BRING BACK THE SERIFS

Kaptain Kouta · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 12:41 pm **Posts:** 63509

Serifs isn't correct either.

They're more like finials, which is actually a building term. A finial is something used on a building to adorn the apex of a gable or outside of an arch. They are a large part of Federation-style homes.

johntall · **Posted:** Tue Jan 27, 2009 10:37 am

Kaptain Kouta wrote:

Serifs isn't correct either.

They're more like finials, which is actually a building term. A finial is something used on a building to adorn the apex of a gable or outside of an arch. They are a large part of Federation-style homes.

Finials, Finals, Grand Finals. I'm all for it.

vangipuss · **Posted:** Mon Mar 23, 2009 8:19 am

SERIOUSLY!

Bring back the notches :mad:

Crusader · **Posted:** Mon Mar 23, 2009 12:53 pm

Buenos NOTCHES!!!

titimus · **Joined:** Tue Mar 08, 2005 12:06 pm **Posts:** 939

johntall wrote:

Rumour has it that the current "circumcised" monogram that replaced the "notches" monogram was instigated by a board member keen to "modernise" the corporate logo. It was done during a dark period of Carlton's history, and was nothing more than a desperate act to look as though the committee was actually doing things. The process involved getting out a ball point pen and filling in the offending notches. No designers were engaged. No research gathered. Just a desperate act by a self important official. Last year I spoke to a Carlton big-wig and he told me that the "notches" monogram remained the favoured version, but fact was we were 'stuck' with the current monogram. He encouraged me, and supporters, to contact the big man himself and push for restoration of the "notches" logo.

I contacted Ian Coutts about this very issue back in February 2006. I created a thread about this at the time in which 61 people preferred the notched/serifed logo, compared to 11 people who like the current version.

Ian Coutts got back to me with this rationale behind the design:

Ian Coutts wrote:

Thanks for taking the time to contact the Carlton Football Club in relation to the new CFC logo and your thoughts on this. As you are well aware in your position as a Graphic Designer everyone has an opinion on such matters and it is very rare to find everyone agree. In regards to the new logo it is part of the campaign to reinvigorate the Carlton brand in the market place. The logo is a much cleaner logo and is in keeping with the objectives of the new promotional campaign and positioning of the Carlton Football Club. The laurel wreath logo is still used by the Club for official documents including the Annual Report.

You may have seen the new TVC that features the logo and the "Something Blue" campaign, this was launched on free to air television last weekend. This is a major campaign that is the result of a comprehensive study on the Carlton brand and where we are positioned and where we would like to be positioned in the market place.

In summary our research indicated that a radical change was needed to the way in which the Club had been marketed in recent years. The new campaign is based around the following 6 key attributes:

* youthful
* stylish
* innovative
* unique
* caring
* making a statement

The campaign highlight's Carlton's key strengths and is designed to appeal to existing and new audiences

I trust this provides you with a brief understanding of the decision behind the introduction of the new logo and look forward to your continued support of the Carlton Football Club.

Kind regards,

Ian Coutts
General Manager - Communications

My professional opinion is that the logo redesign was a butchered job and the result is an unbalanced and ugly logo. The feedback on the design brief from Ian Coutts above does nothing to change this. It seems that this is the consensus on TC from most of these 'bring back the notches' threads.

Maybe we should create a final sticky poll to get TalkingCarlton's official position on the logo? Then we could craft a letter on behalf of TC, letting the CFC know our official position on whether the logo is liked or disliked by the majority of Blues supporters.

Melvey · **Posted:** Mon Mar 23, 2009 5:37 pm

titimus wrote:

My professional opinion is that the logo redesign was a butchered job and the result is an unbalanced and ugly logo..

How is it unbalanced and ugly?

Let me guess you work for a printer who provides a design service therefore making you a so called graphic designer.

Absolutely nothing wrong with the redesign of CFC identity. Far from 'unbalanced' from a real professionals point of view

Wojee · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 8:17 am **Posts:** 35135

The new logo has grown on me, not to a point where I can say I prefer it over the old design, but I certainly don't dislike it now.

Melvey · **Posted:** Mon Mar 23, 2009 6:18 pm

Wojee wrote:

The new logo has grown on me, not to a point where I can say I prefer it over the old design, but I certainly don't dislike it now.

but its unbalanced and ugly

BRING BACK THE NOTCHES

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