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PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 11:38 pm 
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Vale 1953-2020
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I loved Peter Bosustow and saw pretty much every game he played for us. At his best he was fantastic, explosive, a game breaker. We didn't see his best often enough, I reckon. Some nice cameos (against Geelong in the 81 qualifying final, 8 goals against South Melbourne at PP, mark of the year, etc), but not many great dominating games.

So, having him in a team ahead of Walls or Fevola or Fitzpatrick???????? Gotta be kidding.

Walls was pretty much unanimously BOG in the 1972 GF - 6 goals, a hand in others. Played 250 odd games for us, and if it wasn't for typical bloody Carlton politics, should have become the first and only 6-time premiership player at Carlton.

Fitzpatrick can be considered stiff not to have won the Norm Smith in 1981, and then stepped up in 1982 at CHF, playing a beauty. Triple premiership player, dual premiership captain.

Fev hasn't proved himself in a GF yet, but leading goalkicker for 7 years (and our worst ever 7 years), kicked over 80 goals twice, a Coleman medallist, and demonstrated a capacity to lift and take the team up with him in big games (NAB cup GF x 2, State game, many other last qtr heroics).

IMO, the Buzz doesn't compare with these 3. I hate to say it, but Jack Dyer really got it right........ a good ordinary footballer!

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 8:37 am 
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Stephen Silvagni

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moshe25 wrote:
I loved Peter Bosustow and saw pretty much every game he played for us. At his best he was fantastic, explosive, a game breaker. We didn't see his best often enough, I reckon. Some nice cameos (against Geelong in the 81 qualifying final, 8 goals against South Melbourne at PP, mark of the year, etc), but not many great dominating games.

So, having him in a team ahead of Walls or Fevola or Fitzpatrick???????? Gotta be kidding.

Walls was pretty much unanimously BOG in the 1972 GF - 6 goals, a hand in others. Played 250 odd games for us, and if it wasn't for typical bloody Carlton politics, should have become the first and only 6-time premiership player at Carlton.

Fitzpatrick can be considered stiff not to have won the Norm Smith in 1981, and then stepped up in 1982 at CHF, playing a beauty. Triple premiership player, dual premiership captain.

Fev hasn't proved himself in a GF yet, but leading goalkicker for 7 years (and our worst ever 7 years), kicked over 80 goals twice, a Coleman medallist, and demonstrated a capacity to lift and take the team up with him in big games (NAB cup GF x 2, State game, many other last qtr heroics).

IMO, the Buzz doesn't compare with these 3. I hate to say it, but Jack Dyer really got it right........ a good ordinary footballer!


Agree....except that Buzz was a bit more than a good ordinary footballer. Good ordinary footballers imo are blue collar workers without fuss, flair or brilliance. The Buzz had the ability to turn a game; that's not ordinary.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 9:02 am 
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Bruce Doull
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Im still having a giggle with people who have left Walls out of the team......

Walls in MY opinion was a better CHF than Sticks.

He was an unbelievable mark.. a great kick... super fast for his size and would throw his weight around... he would go into alot of packs and emerge with someone holding their face or on the ground.. :smoking:

But he was a big player for big games.. especially Richmond.. they feared playing us with Walls in the side.
No matter what his form was... against Richmond he would tear them a new one.

One of the most underated Carlton champions... purely because he ended up at Fitzroy.. and played in an ear alot of yu ay not have seen.

Youd kill for Walls to play in this team in this modern era ...prototype CHF... the mobile big man that can kick and take marks...

Easily in my best 5 all time Carlton footballers!!!...but the thing that i keep repeating about him is.... he can play in this era also.. like jezza... where alot of other greats cant if they were around today.

In my opinion

The ones that could easily star today from the seventies are
Jezza
Walls
Crosswell
Doull

Most others would struggle for one reason or another...

.. and that incudes blokes from the eighties and nineties too.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 9:27 am 
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Bert Deacon

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Synbad wrote:
Im still having a giggle with people who have left Walls out of the team......

Walls in MY opinion was a better CHF than Sticks.

He was an unbelievable mark.. a great kick... super fast for his size and would throw his weight around... he would go into alot of packs and emerge with someone holding their face or on the ground.. :smoking:

But he was a big player for big games.. especially Richmond.. they feared playing us with Walls in the side.
No matter what his form was... against Richmond he would tear them a new one.

One of the most underated Carlton champions... purely because he ended up at Fitzroy.. and played in an ear alot of yu ay not have seen.

Youd kill for Walls to play in this team in this modern era ...prototype CHF... the mobile big man that can kick and take marks...

Easily in my best 5 all time Carlton footballers!!!...but the thing that i keep repeating about him is.... he can play in this era also.. like jezza... where alot of other greats cant if they were around today.

In my opinion

The ones that could easily star today from the seventies are
Jezza
Walls
Crosswell
Doull

Most others would struggle for one reason or another...

.. and that incudes blokes from the eighties and nineties too.


Walls, according to my mate, had a beautiful duet happening with Swan McKay- when things would go pear-shaped in their starting positions, whoever was the coach would swap 'em around in their alternate CHF/CHB positions and almost invariably, bang! the Baggers would dominate....... :smoking: :thumbsup:

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 9:31 am 
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Vale 1953-2020
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PD'sPC wrote:
Synbad wrote:
Im still having a giggle with people who have left Walls out of the team......

Walls in MY opinion was a better CHF than Sticks.

He was an unbelievable mark.. a great kick... super fast for his size and would throw his weight around... he would go into alot of packs and emerge with someone holding their face or on the ground.. :smoking:

But he was a big player for big games.. especially Richmond.. they feared playing us with Walls in the side.
No matter what his form was... against Richmond he would tear them a new one.

One of the most underated Carlton champions... purely because he ended up at Fitzroy.. and played in an ear alot of yu ay not have seen.

Youd kill for Walls to play in this team in this modern era ...prototype CHF... the mobile big man that can kick and take marks...

Easily in my best 5 all time Carlton footballers!!!...but the thing that i keep repeating about him is.... he can play in this era also.. like jezza... where alot of other greats cant if they were around today.

In my opinion

The ones that could easily star today from the seventies are
Jezza
Walls
Crosswell
Doull

Most others would struggle for one reason or another...

.. and that incudes blokes from the eighties and nineties too.


Walls, according to my mate, had a beautiful duet happening with Swan McKay- when things would go pear-shaped in their starting positions, whoever was the coach would swap 'em around in their alternate CHF/CHB positions and almost invariably, bang! the Baggers would dominate....... :smoking: :thumbsup:


Not quite. Walls would hardly ever go back to defence. But certainly McKay would alternate between CHB, CHF, and HFF. Walls would ogten go to FF (where he kicked 10 against Richmond in one magic game).

BTW, I'd add McKay to those four of Synbad's. I think he's just about the most underrated Carlton player ever. 4 premierships, and played his best footy in the big games.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 10:46 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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If you watch the 1972 Grand Final - you'll see why Walls should be in the side.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 8:04 pm 
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Harry Vallence

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Synbad wrote:
Walls would walk into any Carlton team ever

Hed walk into this modern day team and dominate just like he dominated the big games 40 yrs ago.

Not many footballers can dominate n atter what era they might have played.

Big Nick wouldnt have.
Kenny Hunter would have struggled today.
Even Williams may have struggled.

Walls would shit it in, no matter when he played.

For those that never saw him... think Riewoldt with shit in him... and didnt choke in the big games. (unlike riewoldt


Judd is a walk up too.
Probably in the best 5 players ever to wear the jumper.



Well said.

Also SOS at FB and Southby next to him - WTF?

For those that arnt aware SOS came to the Blues as a potential FF with Peter Mckenna as his mentor at Marcellin.

SOS would have made an incredible FF but what good is a FF with a leaky defence.

Remember if you have the luxury of hindsight put Southby at FB and SOS up forward or as a utility.

Also given I seem to want to remind people about BS Sticks came here as a FF also yet he played the majority of his career at CHF and is still our greatest goal kicker.

Furthermore who was our last major 100+ goal kicker - Shite he could play anywhere he was that bloody good.

Just imagine a forward line containing the below

Jezza - Walls - Hunter

SOS - Sticks - Fev

Or any of the other mutiple combinations you could imagine.

Who would need a crumbing forward given the midfielders you could add and a ruck division that contains Fitzy - Allen - Harry and Big Nick amongst others to pick from. Sorry Perc what was I thinking.

Also another who never got the chance that should absolutely be in that team up forward is Mot's - By far the best of the boys we got in the stage he was at at the time when cut down :cry: .


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 10:07 pm 
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Adrian Gallagher
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Thanks everybody - great posts - mouth watering stuff. Agree wholeheartedly re Walls. IMO Sid Jackson could probably go around alright in this era. Southby, magnificent! But I could go on and on and on ........

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:37 pm 
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Wayne Johnston

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Synbad wrote:
Walls in MY opinion was a better CHF than Sticks.


I saw the 2nd half of Walls career, and agree he was a terrific player. But I can't rate him ahead of Sticks as a CHF. Walls didn't take contested marks like Sticks did. And Sticks was an incredible leader of his teammates. I don't think Walls was.

I know Walls was certainly capable of playing key position, and doing it very, very well. But if he played today, he'd be better suited as a 3rd tall forward. Tall, super mobile, and very skilful. In fact, I reckon he played a little bit like Buddy, as a very tall and very quick half forward flanker.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 9:07 pm 
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 7:56 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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I also agree that Walls was extremely underated - it killed me to see him cleared to Fitzroy.

Also just to add another small fly in some people's ointment - Mark Maclure was a very special player for us during that 79 to 82 golden period - holding down Centre Half Forward - protecting and feeding our famed Mosquito Fleet.

Considering we didnt have a dominating Full Forward for any of those 3 Premiership wins in 4 years - Mark Maclure's efforts really go un-noticed - might be difficult for him to get into this best side of the past 40 years compared to others - but it would have been difficult for us to win those Premierships without him.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 8:03 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Stefchook wrote:
Synbad wrote:
Walls in MY opinion was a better CHF than Sticks.


I saw the 2nd half of Walls career, and agree he was a terrific player. But I can't rate him ahead of Sticks as a CHF. Walls didn't take contested marks like Sticks did. And Sticks was an incredible leader of his teammates. I don't think Walls was.

I know Walls was certainly capable of playing key position, and doing it very, very well. But if he played today, he'd be better suited as a 3rd tall forward. Tall, super mobile, and very skilful. In fact, I reckon he played a little bit like Buddy, as a very tall and very quick half forward flanker.



Probably very difficult to rate Walls ahead of Kernahan and certainly Sticks was a better contested mark than Walls - however what a lot of people dont know is that Walls was always instructed to knock the ball on when contesting in packs rather than trying to mark the ball in order to allow our quality smalls to crumb the ball.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 9:22 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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B. Harmes Southby SOS

HB. Goold Kouta Doull

C. DRJ Johnson Bradley

HF. Jezza Walls Williams

FF. Buckley Fev Keogh

Rucks. Nicholls Crosswell Judd

Interchange: Dean Madden Armstrong Kernahan

Emergencies: Swan McKay, Andrew Mackay, Glascott, Bosustow

Coach: Parkin

Of those, I reckon several would still get a game today. The main reason I did this exercise was to bring Goold to notice. Ragsy Goold stuffed up the odd kick but was in the mould of the current dashing HB running through the midfield and I reckon would play in this era. He was one of my favourites of the day apart from Big Nick, who I sadly think would struggle to get drafted in the modern era.
We have been blessed with winning lots of premierships in the last 40 years so there are about a hundred other players who contributed to them who might get a mention. It is interesting, for example that Crane is mentioned in the team of the century but I remember he was in and out of the team a lot at the time and played a bit as 19th man in the days before interchange. IIR there was talk at one stage of letting him go before he finally kicked on. Mil Hanna, who is one of my all time favourite players but was off the intechange a lot almost got a mention.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 10:24 pm 
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Serge Silvagni

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Synbad makes an interesting point about some great players not being able to play in the modern era. I'm not convinced that is a consideration when assessing the best team of the last 40 years, but suppose we change the question to picking the best team for today's game, from players of the last 40 years? Working from the basis of the team I suggested earlier in this thread:

Harmes Southby Silvagni Jnr

Hunter Koutoufides Doull

Bradley Williams Crane

Johnston Walls Crosswell

Kernahan Nicholls Keogh

Madden Jesaulenko Ashman

Bosustow Fitzpatrick Jackson D McKay

Emerg Fevola Gallagher Perovic

The ones in red are those that I think could be argued to have a problem with the demands of the modern game. However, I reckon that Southby could play as a "third tall" type defender, indeed he is just the sort of 6'2" mobile defender the Hawks and Cats stock their defences with, to great effect. Hunter would have to play more as a small than he did in his day, but he had the ground skills and pace to do that on his ear. Williams whilst he would still get a heap of the ball under the packs would be exploited mercilessly for his lack of pace and I think would have to go. Dominator although a bit slow would be quick enough to play in the guts resting up forward (especially if talking about him before cruelled by injury). Nicholls clearly couldn't ruck against today's giants and whilst he might have made it today as a strong midsize forward (as I understand it he had the athleticism earlier in his career but that was before I remember) but it is probably fair to say that it would be too much to expect him to dominate in such a role sufficient to warrant a spot in this notional team. Ashman might be found out for his pace as a rover today, for Fitzy repeat comments for Big Nick, Gallagher repeat the comments for Ashman but replacing "might" with "would".

So outs - Williams, Nicholls, Fitzpatrick, Ashman, Gallagher

INS? Well start with the emergencies - Fev to FF, Perovic to bench. Then Ratten in for Williams, but move him to roving. Buckley and Brown for Ashman and Gallagher. A back-up ruck is harder, but I'd go for Matthew Allan even though his best form wasn't sustained for long. There isn't really a need for another ruckman, and none leap out at me so for the last emergency spot I'll go for Andrew McKay, a truly quality player by any measure.

So, after a little shuffling:

Harmes Southby Silvagni Jnr

Hunter Perovic Doull

Bradley Jesaulenko Crane

Johnston Walls Crosswell

Kernahan Fevola Keogh

Madden Koutoufides Ratten

Allan Bosustow Jackson D McKay

Emerg F Brown Buckley A McKay

Wouldn't mind seeing that team run out for 2009!


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