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PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2008 12:47 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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jake_h03 wrote:
DIAMOTISM wrote:
Cox is the best in the business. Don't be too critical when our short ruckmen and the other a very inexperienced ruckmen cannot beat the best ruckmen in the league. Cox was awesome the other night.

It could be worse, if you watched Hawthorn blow away Collingwood yesterday, Collingwood's rucks are very average.


Nah.. We were smashed by
St Kilda 41 - 18
Melbourne 34 - 19
Adelaide 55 - 17 :shock:
West Coast 44 - 19.

So don't say Cox is just too good.


St.Kilda - King/Gardner are great ruckmen. I would have predicted that outcome.
Melbourne - Jeff White is an experienced and strong ruckmen. His weakness is moving around the ground getting uncontested possessions. I would have predicted that outcome.
Adelaide - Griffen is the fourth highest hit out winner in the league. I would have predicted that outcome.

Perspective please :roll:

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PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2008 12:50 pm 
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John Nicholls
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Springsteen wrote:
cloke CHF and rotate hammer and kruz in the ruck.


Yep. But Hampson with more time as 'the' ruckman, as Kreuz is struggling a little in the hitouts against the bigger, more experienced ruckman


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PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2008 1:14 pm 
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Horrie Clover

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We cant play all 3 at once! we will get slaughtered if we do that, teams will run over the top of us.
we've just got to rotate hammer and the kruuuze in the team from the ants, until they are both ready.

i'd bring in hammer for kruuuuuze for a few weeks. that does a few things, it rests the kruuuze (only his first year, dont want to burn him out) and it gives hammer a secind go after poor start to the season + injury.


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PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2008 1:36 pm 
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Bob Chitty
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keogh wrote:

A three way rotation with kreuzer involved is possible.



We did this against Essendon* and it unbalanced the team. Hammer only got on the ground for about 35% of the time and Setanta was dropped to make room for Kreuzer.

I know Setanta is not a big stats winner but he offers more versatility than any of the other three because he is a better option as a tall defender and no worse as a leading forward.

Hammer was good in his return from injury last week, is probably ready to go and should be selected against Brisbane but only if he is going to be given a decent run.

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PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2008 1:44 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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RiverRodent wrote:
keogh wrote:

A three way rotation with kreuzer involved is possible.



We did this against Essendon* and it unbalanced the team. Hammer only got on the ground for about 35% of the time and Setanta was dropped to make room for Kreuzer.

I know Setanta is not a big stats winner but he offers more versatility than any of the other three because he is a better option as a tall defender and no worse as a leading forward.

Hammer was good in his return from injury last week, is probably ready to go and should be selected against Brisbane but only if he is going to be given a decent run.


aggree with this.

RR.............. what's your thoughts on giving Aisakie a go?

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PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2008 1:55 pm 
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Bob Chitty
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ryan2000 wrote:
RiverRodent wrote:
keogh wrote:

A three way rotation with kreuzer involved is possible.



We did this against Essendon* and it unbalanced the team. Hammer only got on the ground for about 35% of the time and Setanta was dropped to make room for Kreuzer.

I know Setanta is not a big stats winner but he offers more versatility than any of the other three because he is a better option as a tall defender and no worse as a leading forward.

Hammer was good in his return from injury last week, is probably ready to go and should be selected against Brisbane but only if he is going to be given a decent run.


aggree with this.

RR.............. what's your thoughts on giving Aisakie a go?


I'd like to see him get a decent go for the Bullants first.

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PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2008 2:26 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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Cloke is not a CHF and never will be. He is a ruckmen but a short one at that.

Cloke is doing OK and tries his heart out. He is only filling in time until Hammer and Vodka both mature.

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PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2008 2:53 pm 
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Rod Ashman

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Can have 3 in the team.
Rotate Hammer, Kruez & Cloke as required b/w ruck, FP, CHF & bench. And Setanta in the backline. The reason Hammer got so little game time against the Bombers was b/c Kreuz & Cloke were playing very well.
None of Kruez, Hampson nor Setanta are liabilities in terms of pace.


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PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2008 3:34 pm 
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John Nicholls

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I wouldnt sacrifice another running player to play 3 ruckman. Far too top heavy. We become boring and play like st kilda (top heavy). When we run out of puff in games we need another runner.

People can come up with all types of plans ie cloke at chf, hammer off the bench and so on but in the end we only have 22 players and we need to have as much run as possible.

Rest Krooz play Hampson.....or let Hampson prove he has more to offer than Cloke in the Bullants.


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PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2008 5:04 pm 
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Ken Hands
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Just for those that like stats (Jarusa)
Carlton is currently ranked last for hitouts wirh 22.1 per game against the top team Port having twice as many per game.

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_t ... e=TA&sby=7

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PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2008 7:46 pm 
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Bruce Comben

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It's certainly a difficult decision.

I'm not exactly clear of the best option regarding our rucking situation but one thing i know is that it will be important to bring Hampson into the side soon IMO.

With the Gold Coast team earmarked for 2010 they will be coming out very hard to lure Shaun back to QLD and it would be in our best interests to look after him with the opportunity of senior football to fend off such 'poachers.' I don't want to witness him take the competition by storm in an opposing guernsey.


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PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2008 8:00 pm 
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Herald Sun columnist
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I think its telling that the Eagles went into the game with only one ruckman [granted, the best in the business].

We don't have a ruck, which is why clubs show us respect by playing one ruckman and a pinch hitting dill around the ground.

We need to get some greater game time into a player we believe will be at Carlton for the next 5 to 10 years.

If it looks that Hammer will go home, then bring in either Jacobs or Aisake - post haste.

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PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2008 8:46 pm 
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Wayne Johnston

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Blueboy wrote:
This is a dilema.

Cloke has done nothing to deserve being dropped, yet is too short and not athletic enough to get effective hitouts against opposition rucks.

Kruezer is going to be a champ, but at the moment is too light on in the muscle dept. However his around the ground work show heaps of promise already.

Hampson is an athletic freak who can get first hands to the ball but is not as effective around the ground as Cloke and Kruzer.

Throw in Jacobs who I know little about but by some reports offers the bulk to go against the big opposition bodies but struggles to get around the ground.

So what do we do? We need to win more hitouts than we are now.

Option 1 - Cloke and Kruezer - Continue sacrificing hitouts for around ground agility while getting games into Kruzer.

Option 2 - Cloke and Hampson - Gives Kruzer a rest, but is there anything for him to gain in the Ants? Hampson gives us a genuine chance to win the hitout but can get caught out around the ground. Does Kruezer go to the forward line? I think we may be too tall then, and playing FF does not allow Kruze to use his biggest asset, his tank. CHF maybe? Kruze CHF, Fev FF with Fish playing the flank/pocket.

Option 3 - Kruzer and Hampson - This is the one we'd like to see but I think it may be too early. What do we do with Cloke? If he goes to CHF are we too top heavy for todays game.

I wouldn't expect to see Jacobs in unless Cloke gets injured (touch wood) as they sound like similar players. There is also Zachy and Ackland but I can't see them in the mix at the moment.

It will be interesting to see what the MC do on the ruck issue.
Good points there, just not sure about the "top heavy" as we don't actually have a CHF. Fev is a mobile forward more so than a power forward so a big, strong forward may not go amiss. Cloke works hard may just fill a similar role to Earl Spalding 10 years ago. Reads the play well and can lead up the ground too. No-one thought of his brother as a CHF at the beginning of last year but, although a different player to his brother, that turned into a terrific success. Importantly, Cloke would take a man away from Fev. If Cloke's not there then Hartlett or Setanta will be. After the other night Setenta is better suited back, adding much needed size, plenty of mobility and working nicely with Jammo, Waite and Thornton. That leaves Hampson and Kreuzer to do the rucking.


Last edited by jim on Sun May 04, 2008 8:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2008 8:50 pm 
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Wayne Johnston

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Hank 43 wrote:
It's certainly a difficult decision.

I'm not exactly clear of the best option regarding our rucking situation but one thing i know is that it will be important to bring Hampson into the side soon IMO.

With the Gold Coast team earmarked for 2010 they will be coming out very hard to lure Shaun back to QLD and it would be in our best interests to look after him with the opportunity of senior football to fend off such 'poachers.' I don't want to witness him take the competition by storm in an opposing guernsey.
Hopefully around 2011 we're pushing for a flag hence encouraging Hampson to hang around.


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PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2008 9:34 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni

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One thing that I factor when considering Hampson and Aisake is that they are not cumdersome and add some speed in the bigman division. Effextively, like Cox, it's like adding an extra RR rather than carrying a ruckman.

All this top heavy discussion reminds me of the day and age the 6 foot wingman was introduced, eventually leaving the midget wingman in their wake (not always though); it's a height advantage, without creating a pace deficiency.

Today the 190 cm winman or RR is a preference not a disadvantage.

So, if Aisake and Hampson were to make it, for arguments sake and Kreuzer was CHF and possibly rotating with Aisake and Hampson, as well as having Setanta in the backline, then that's 4 talls in the side. What's to suggest we're too top heavy?

Throw in Waite at CHB and Jamison and Thornton on the FB line, and even Bower at HB, I still don't consider that making us top heavy when they all have pace to carry on every line.

When one considers having cumbersome heavy weights such as Jacobs and Cloke in the same team, then sure, we become a bit top heavy.

Point is 200cm players with pace and mobility do not make us top heavy when we have a deep list of excellent midfielders to rotate from bench, from FP and HF. Players need to give 100% in bursts and rested for short periods, not whole quarters or even 3 quarters as in the Pagan era.

We lost against Essendon* after Hille had his injections and our players tired IMO...not because we were too top heavy.

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PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2008 10:53 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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We should be looking at Warnock come the end of the year....

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PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2008 8:38 am 
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Ken Hunter
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ahhh the new focus Synbad :lol:

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PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2008 8:41 am 
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Bruce Doull
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dannyboy wrote:
ahhh the new focus Synbad :lol:


Im always planning ahead.... :wink:

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PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2008 8:46 am 
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Ken Hunter
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what about CHF?

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PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2008 9:22 am 
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Bruce Comben

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l think you guys on the right track with the thought processes going on here. Watching the replays all the time has made me think that its time to blood Aisake in the ruck. l have been watching a few bullants games and he seems to me that he has the tools to succeed. Height , pace and natural ability. Team him up with Hammer, and the rucks looking pretty good.

Look to see Waite on one wing and Fisher on the other. Kreuz and Cloke CHF.


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