Saddington must play this week. We need a bigger experienced body down back. He is the only one we have.

I think Saddo is worth a look also for the same reasons, we need experiance down back if we are going to go anywhere....

Anderson, Pfiffer, Walker, Kruezer, Hampson are the obvious in we need to make happen, but at the expense of who??

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Circumstance has no value. It is how one relates to a situation that has value. All true meaning resides in the personal relationship to a phenomenon, what it means to you.

The ball went in to our defensive 50 on 50 occasions! It doesnt matter if you've got 6 Stephen Silvagnis, you wont win if you consistently lose the midfield.
The average for most defences is to give up 1 scoring shot per 2 defensive 50 entries. Thats what happened. Lets concentrate on reducing the amount of times the opposition go forward and the problem is solved. Jason saddington wont fix that.

Hopefully this week we will have a competitive ruck division. Also Judd and Stevo will have another game under their belts. Fish will return which puts a bit more pressure on the oppositions backline and their rebound.

If we can manage 10 forward entries more than our opponents, we will win the overwhelming majority of our games. That should be our focus, not putting more slow players into our team.

Reactive thinking solves nothing.

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

Skill level is of a concern no doubt but we definitely need more leg speed.

Murphy
Gibbs

Hadley
Bannister
Carrazzo
jackson
all arnt quick
Simmo is quickStevens is to some extent
Judd will get better

But we definitely need more tempo
Anderson and Benjamin. I would hope these guys get fit pay some ants games then get a crack

Anderson impresses me last year. he is also fearless

Benjamin is a long way off from what i saw last year but he is the quickest guy at Carlton.

Oh yeah because we just drafted Wiggins and Bannister didn't we?

What a silly comparison. Bannister has had more than a few ordinary games over the years.

And somebody wanted an official link between the club and this website! This thread is all the proof anyone will ever need as to why no AFL club in their right minds would ever consider official ties with fan sites. Good grief I was shattered after the game but its round 1 ffs!

We are not going to compete for finals for 2-3 seasons. the sooner some people accept that the easier it will be for them.

Are you being mischievous? I do not recall seeing a player of his size so often outmuscled in the marking contests. He cannot play on the big forwards full stop. He likes to play the loose man in defence but then again so do others.

By that response its clear that you didn't read throught the thread. Here's a tip, maybe you should be aware what you're responding too before you actually respond to it.

What has this thread got to do with our Round 1 loss? Very little. When there's a 50/50 choice between a kid and a older player we should pick the kid. That's just common sense for a club in our situation, and it looks like that people like yourself who seem to disagree would rather make silly little potshots rather than actually mount an argument for the opposite.

I did read your post and frankly it didnt get any better for me after successive readings. The title sets the tone of it. Its not common sense to dump an older player or a 50/50 as you say for a kid after round 1 or round 5 for that matter. Towards the end of the season is fine and thats the time to do it. Our team is full of inexperienced young players and the oldest player is what 28? I wouldnt call that paying lip service to a youth policy.

The teams hardly full of pensioners and we've got 6-7 players on the list who have played 100 games or more of football. Young players need to have some experience around them and some players need some patience. Blackwell is a prime example, the kid can play but doesnt get a run of games in the side. I wonder if you would have started this thread if we won?

How much experience do we get out of a player with 60 games under his belt? Eddie Betts isn't far off (about 3-4 games) having more games under his belt than Bannister so I don't see how you can argue that Bannister brings much experience with him (other than his age).

And that's about the only argument against playing the younger players instead, experience. However experience is useless when the player with it doesn't have the ability to use it or to make a significant contribution. I still don't see how a player like Pfeffier would be any less beneficial to the team than a player like Wiggins, Bannister or Saddington even without any experience. Plus the only way to get experience is by playing games, they can't get AFL experience playing in the VFL.

We could have sacked Bannister and the Wiggler at the end of last season, to grab a few kids near the end of the draft in the hope of picking a gem... but they weren't delisted, and instead they've obviously warranted a game in Round 1.

Now, they might not play next week, or for the rest of the season - but in my opinion any player on the Carlton list should be given to opportunity to play for their careers... yes, these guys have been in the system for quite a while admittedly, but at least we can say we are giving them every opportunity to earn another contract.

We gave Livo and Prenda 'another year' - year in year out. Banno and Wiggo, if nothing else - throw everything into their football and at least that should stand for something.

If we are done and dusted by Round 15, we should then have a better idea of where these two stand and if they are going to be cut - THEN play the kids!

I think you make a reasonable point about Bannister (in that he won't make it long term), except he did pretty well on Deledio and deserves another game this week. At this stage they should be selecting on merit. For many reasons. One of them is to build confidence in the younger group by being competitive. I dont think Cloke will see the year out in the ones but he deserves another go this week on the basis of Thursday's game. Jackson did very little after a bright start on Thursday and will come under scrutiny. As will Betts who continues to be one dimensional.

I'm going to keep pushing for the removal of Betts. He just isn't (and doesn't seem prepared to get himself) fit enough to run hard enough for long enough. We have too many guys who can't run at AFL standard and IMO if you are another of those you need to have something very special about you which you SEE more often than we do from Eddie. He is a goal a game FP who does very little else. His chasing and tackling efforts are nowhere near as good as advertised. Nowhere near his peers such as Alwyn Davey. Time to go for mine. I'd rather we played another running midfielder (Pfeiffer), pushed Gibbs and Murph (who lack the ability to play on ball all day at the moment) forward more often. I don't think we'd lose goals in total from that change (lose 1 from Betts, get it back from increased output from Gibbs and Murph plus Pfeiffer can kick a goal) but we'd be a better chance to run out the game.

Bannister plays because every team needs at least one tagger. They tried Russell and he failed dismally at that role. Jackson isn't quite there at the moment. Anderson might become that player. But until either of them step up they will keep considering Bannister.

Playing kids (who might occasionally get towelled up) doesnt seem to have hindered Hawthorn's development 2005-2007 & Round 1 2008. It's time to go Bannister, Wiggins, Russell. It's almost time to go Betts.
Don't worry about getting belted every second week. It won't happen. PAYAGAIN is not there anymore!!!!!

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If I want your opinion, I'll give it to you!

I think it's a misconception that "playing the kids" = development.

I think there's a lot to be said for "playing the kids" in the VFL until they are ready to contribute at AFL level. Sure, getting AFL games under their belt is PART of their development, but some young players are not helped by being thrown into the AFL cauldron when they are simply not ready for it. Some are ready sooner than others.

And how many kids can you play in the team at any one time? Almost half our team on Thursday had played under 40 games.

99prelim used the example of Hawthorn "playing kids" in 2005-2007. Don't forget that while they were getting games into Buddy, Roughead, Lewis, etc they also had going around the likes of Beaumont, Ball, Barker, Dixon, Holland, Jacobs, Smith and Vandenberg, who are all gone now but served a purpose in setting up where the Hawks are now. The likes of Ackland, Banno, Cloke, Saddo and Wiggo won't play every week for Carlton (possibly hardly ever) but the club might play them when they think our young team needs bigger/harder bodies. Those guys can come straight in and, although they have limited reserves of natural talent (and won't be part of flag #17), they can draw some of the heat away from the kids while our kids are developing (whether it be in the AFL or the VFL sides).

To say any player should never play for Carlton again when they occupy a spot on our list, and there is 21 games to go, is premature.

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It's never as good as it looks and it's never as bad as it seems.

Ha ha ha ha ha...

first time I log on since thursday afternoon, and I get on here and see a thread titled 'players who should never play for Carlton again'.

After... wait for it... ROUND ONE!

Ha ha ha ha ha... keep the laughs coming Andain... keep 'em coming

As for Betts, Russell, and Blackwell - they are all 21 years of age and striving to make it in the AFL. Even if we assessed them as not being in our current best 22, wouldn't you want them to keep pushing for selection, placing pressure on those in the best 22? Why write them off at this stage? You may do so later in the year, but why would you allow them to occupy a spot on the list in 2008 if you have no intention of playing them? We are crying out for these sorts of guys to improve, but they won't if you take away the thing that is motivating them. Plus, you are taking away competition for spots within the playing group.

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It's never as good as it looks and it's never as bad as it seems.

QFT.

Just as bad as that is that we have a lot of posts agreeing with 'supporters' beginning to burning our players at the stake already.

Like I said - Round 16... then depending on how we are faring go for your life.

playing the kids can sometimes = sending them to slaughter
i think they need to slowly be bled into the side rather than just be played for the sake of it
we r gonna need some stronger bodied "journey men" there, even if not great to ease the burden

imagine how much better murph's/gibb's development would have been if gently introduced to afl rather than thrown in off the deep end coz we had no one better?

not a big fan of thorntons but gotta feel sorry for him taking on the gorillas week in week out in those dark years when he is reall only suited to 2nd/3rd talls

dont wanna see this again

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In america, first you get zee shugar, the you get zee power, then you get ze wemen!!!

I agree. Ditto Saddington and Ackland.

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There is no footy god