Could this be Simmo's issue?

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Right now I think, in my very humble opinion, that Simmo's problem is threefold. Pagan doesn't give him enough opportunities in the midfield, Simmo hasn't got the respect of his peers yet so he doesn't recieve the ball as much as some others, and he doesn't consistantly put himself in the right position to recieve the ball, he needs to run harder to give himself the opportunity to really damage the enemy.

i Heard a great quote from Waite after is BOG performance a week ago which may relate to what ye guys are discussing. Waite said he suffered from not being used by the senior players IE if Fev / Whitnall / Lappin are in the Forward area they will be first choice even if they have 1/2 dozen defenders hanging off them.

When Fev was out and we needed someone to stand up finally he took the chance and well 5 goals and BOG. THe prob does come from the "Elite so called Players IE Campo / Kouta ect who will use the other players they know better first even if they are double teamed or in the wrong position.

This happened at the Bulldogs also with there senior group not using some of the other players and they suffered.

I think there has to be a change in how our senior players think they have to just trust the other members not just the new trade picks but some of our new Drafts and use them. Opposition teams prob wont give them as much time as they will concentrate on just our senior players. And we are playing that way where the senior group target each other. so shut down the senior players and we shut down Carlton.

I hope that T-Bird and Teague and the like change the culture there and we have to give Simmo / walker ago use them dont ignore them and also let them to the bum wrap cause someone else failed to cover there man.

So if we include Russell / Byran / Betts ect they have to be used and given oppertunities there confidece will improve and of course they may show that they can play and contribute.

Good example at the Hawks / Tigers they have embraced there new Kids and got them to be part of the Team and you can see the senior guys get a lift and the Kids get confidence and it become infectious. Bulldogs also are now embracing this as well and again the results show that West ? smith are involving all there players.

Soon our so called leaders though we dont have much there use the rest of the players on the field the better we will be and all will improve.

Also i will be staggered if Benteck dosnt get a run. We want a hard ball get player he is what we need at the moment to balance our run with players who free wheel through the mid field we need to balance the types of Midfielders we have and not have 6 receivers

3 weeks in the firsts running off the bench, and a couple in the 2s.

Or, Denis can learn to adjust to his new environment, and rotate more.

The kid has an 18 year old party. Its ultimately better for him not to be run into the ground with constant full-matches.

Andain, mate, for every 1 young player who is "scarred" by senior exposure, you could name 5 who flourish. There's no reason why he should be scarred unless we run him into the ground... which we won't if he's sitting on the pine for a good stretch.

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Tyrant,

Just wondering what you think is better for Jordan's development: sitting on the bench for a good stretch in the seniors or playing a full game for the Bullants?

Just wondering.

Wolfe, the situation you described, happened in rd 22 of 2003.

"Don't kick it to Angwin" - I believe that was the mantra being followed.

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Simmo's issue? What issue? The guy played his first almost full game and racked up 18 possies, taking the role that senior players should take, but he took it with aplomb, skill and tenacity. Simmo has no problem other than Pagan's reluctance to use him given he's a 3rd year player.

Yep Clem but i still see some of players are prob not used properly and that the senior players demand the ball and the junior players deliver to themeven if better options are available and prob also senior players use each other more as well.

I got the impression more from what Waite had said but after hearing that made me think maybe that was happening more in the team than maybe it should and has been affecting some of the decision making and has caused us to kick to contests

Just an observation

Not disagreeing with you Wolfey, not one bit...just that it seems to have a little precedent that's all...

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Senior Carlton players have done this for as long as i remember.
Kouta once told a friend of mine in his early time in the side.. "Lucky i have Ang in the team to kick it to me"
Its a cultural thing at Carlton.. just like getting away from training is and always has been for the senior players..

there are two teams out there.. just get a tape of tghe wooden sppon year.. it was so apparent.

But it hails from way back..

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I remember reading something Ted Hopkins wrote. After a game at Geelong where Carlton won - Sergio Silvagni went up to Ted and said something along the lines of "That was a very important mark you took today in the context of the game".

Ted said from that point on he felt accepted by the senior group of players - and that he felt confident enough to mix it with them.

I guess it is a facet of all clubs and all types of work environments ie. "The new kid on the block" has to prove himself. However in a football context you have to wonder if senior players went out of their way to make rookies accepted how much more quickly their development could be accelerated.

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You mean Sam Cranage and David Gallagher could have been good players if only the senior players had have kicked to him?

Look, being meloncholy is OK, and perhaps expected, but can we ditch this garbage? Every workplace has higher standards for the juniors, its just the way it is. If we do or we dont it doesn't matter. Simmo by weight of numbers will get there for he is that good. Bentick by weight of numbers will get there for he is that good. In today's age of effective possession numbers surely Pagan realises whats happening according to Synbad and others. If not, its his fault. I agree that we have some 'followers' but geesh, our job is to support the team isnt it?

Or maybe Douglas C. Neidemeyer could have been a better platoon leader and he wouldn't have been shot in Vietnam (by his own troops).

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Rodney Eade said something similar on 3AW a few weeks back.

Said when he first arrived at Hawthorn, then captain Don Scott didn't talk to him for that whole season. The reason? He apparently had to earn his stripes before Don would talk to him.

I find it disgusting that that mentality still exists in our side today. Granted Denis can't do anything about it physically, but he could at least drill Campo, Kouta etc etc for passing to a under the pressure Fevola rather than a free Waite.

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I think that exists at every club. I think I can remember hearing Bannister say it was a lot worse at Essendon* compared to Carlton.