What if there are no priority picks, what does that do for planning? Is it worth playing for just pick #1, instead of just #6. Or is it only good planning if we can get pick #1 and #2, #2 and #4???

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Camelboy you give yourself the best opportunity to take the best kid available when you need to do it. No matter if its 1 or 6... you only dont worry which one you take when you have what you need.
You can sit there and pick away at the system and scoff at it as much as you like.. 5 years up the track youre still trying to get 12 wins and make the 8 if you dont take it seriously.
BTW you aloso can talk the best uncontracted player to cross for nothing if you finish last too....
We couldnt even get Knobel last year where we were...
Oh you might say but players dont leave... no they mightnt leave for 100k extra but we will have a war chest of near 1.5mill.. thats some serious money to throw at the right player.`

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There are 20 of the 22 who said we shouldnt tank games but also go on to say play all the kids..
Well thats what were saying...but vote no if it makes your conscounce feel better as long as youre understanding the concept.

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Finishing last would be great to attract sponsors too.

we have major sponsors tied in for a year or two.
Didnt stop Richmond from finding one after they finished last and had a drink driving problem.
What it will give u is sponsors jumping ON in the future because youre playing a bright and sparkling game and not just competitive.

Just look into the future.. its all there... stop living day to day...

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judging by the first 7 rounds we're not going to be far off the bottom anyway.

So why try and win 6 and cost us an extra kid anyway?????

Cant you see the point???
we can try and win as many as we can .. which lets not kid ourselves wont be many.. or we can get an elite kid and a better chance at a great player through the psd...

Ive been arguing about this with all the General Custers on here for a year.. cos they cant see the bigger picture.

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Who's to say that playing some of the younger players won't help us to win games? If so, that isn't tanking games. As seen from yesterday, the attitudes of some of the senior players are not what we need to help Carlton move forward. As Pagan says football is played 90(?)%above the shoulders, no matter your ability or experience, if you're switched on you'll play well.

It's worth a shot to see how we go with our developing players in the team, having a red hot crack at it, giving them the experience, and allowing for this by dropping some of the senior players who are lazy and not willing to give 110% every week.

Easy there Synbad!... I, like many posters, love your passion for our club-which we all share with you......BUT in your belief that you know better the way forward(and you are entitled to your opinion) -You are making some Big assumptions about other people's beliefs/views.

It is NOT being spoilt to favour an option to try to play hard and win while blooding our youth. Don't put words in my mouth- I wasn't suggesting that we want success on a platter, which you infer from your comment "youre spoilt and you cant understand what needs to be done to turn the ship around.. "

After yesterday's game-how can you infer that playing young players that want to give it a red hot go will be any worse than the performance against tigers? It is not having it each way to believe that giving our younger boys(but not when they are too underdone) an opportunity to run and build match experience-might still bring some encouraging results.

That's why I voted no and stick to that. I want to see our blueboys to give it a red hot go every week. I want a culture that seeks success through effort, pride in the jumper and personal discipline. So we play wheover deserves to be picked for the team on form and effort-even if this means dropping some name players-This may not lead to wins, FOR NOW-but it will lay the foundations for a winning team in the future.

I for one am have been at a loss as to what we can do but have come to the conclusion it is in the clubs best LONG TERM interests if we bottom out....

The only way to make ourselves genuine premiership contenders is to bring A grade talent to the club and this can only be done by the draft or trading some of our players which are worth currency

Gee how I wish L.A and Norman had there heads screwed on as I really believe talent wise, these are the type of players that are needed.

L.A especially, as he could of been anything

I just prey Pagen and the match committee take the long road (and believe you me it will be long) and play the kids and bottom out

I do relise we may be down for a longer period if we do go this road and I for one am willing to take a few more punches if thats what it takes

I understand that being out of the draft we had no choice before but to bring in middle of the road players, where some did work out like Teague but the majority did not and now we are back in the draft this paractice has to stop now, we as a club to build FOR THE LONG TERM need TALENT, and I hate to say this I hope we finish with under the total wins needed for the priority pick
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I guess all those who want us to lose every game may as well disappear for the rest of the year and no need to have a go at any of the players for not putting in 110%.

The day Carlton start playing for picks is the day I seriously reconsider whether I should renew my membership.

No... but I do think Denis needs to be more ruthless with players with obvious failings (Bannister, Johnson etc).

I seriously think he should just pick the kids with talent and run them into experience. Pick Bentick and Russell before Banniser and Johnson get games.

If we lose we lose...... I hope we don't lose. To be fair, though, I cant see how having Bannister (for example) in the team rather than Russell is INCREASING our chances of victory anyway.

Play the kids and cross your fingers, I reckon. Always play to win.. but give Simmo, Russell, Bentick, Santy etc etc all long-term exposure.

Try and run the talented players into form. Stick Davies in the backpocket and give him 15 weeks to make it. Stick Walker on the HBF or running with a man for exposure.

What he needs to do is draw a line under the players he thinks have potential, and find spots for them that would further their development.... then pick the McGraths/Bannisters/Bowyers/Johnsons to fill the spots around them to maximise our success.

Damnit, I'd pick bloody Plemming, J.D Smith, Becker etc etc if we had options.

Here's what I'd do. These guys always in the team, in these roles.. then pick a team around them.

Davies - Backpocket... learn to get into games, be consistent, and develop into that backpocket to take the little nippy types that always burn us. (we HAVE to find one somewhere.. and Carrazzo might be it.... but time for another player to get his chance)
Carrazzo - Run-with on the ball
Bentick - Get solid game time in the coalface.. in a rotation
Simpson - wing
Walker - Run-with on the ball/HBF
Russell - HBF, run-with an outside type....
Fisher - get a taste both ends, depending on matchups (same goes for
Santy, while Fish is still out)
Waite - CHF
Norman - Stick him on a tall every week and cross fingers. Make him suffer for his spot.... hero or zero time
Livo - see "Norman"
Betts - as you were...... but, perhaps a bit more time in the kitchen

Other stuff I'd do:

Whitnall: put him on the ball. He was getting in Fev's way before. I'd have him chasing marks on the wing. If the opposition try and expose him for pace, I'd switch him loose in defence or on the bench. Whitnall is a smart player and can use space well. Take the pressure off and see if he can get his taste back.

DeLuca: There's not much for him to do at the moment. He gets in the way, he's quick but not overly mobile (doesn't present up the ground), and Prender is our back-up ruck for French tired-times. ESPECIALLY leave him out if Santy's in the team.

Sporn: What's going on, mate?

Scotland: gee... I don't know where he's at these days. As Ponky (I think) said earlier... he's a bit of a one trick pony. He's a good accumulator, but offers little going the other way. He's got to be forced to be accountable, or he's almost a reliability. They should give him full-time tagging jobs or backflank roles to FORCE him to be accountible

Campo: see "Scotland"

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Bring in the kids if they are ready. Drop the guys that aren't giving not only 100% but 110%. The game against last years wooden spooners was the most pathetic and useless game I have seen. The axe has to fall. Serioulsly, how many quarters of good quality footy have the boys played this year (H&A), I could count them on one hand (BTW i'm missing a couple of fingers)

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You can just smell that fresh Carlton arrogance coming back into the air

My granddad only had a thumb and 1 finger on his right hand. He could count them.

He could also bowl a mean offie... still don't know how he managed to get the right purchase on the tennis ball.

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Carlton on the bottom of the ladder is something every Carlton supporter finds hard to stomach.
You look back over the years and we have always been up there contesting finals and winning flags.

Times have changed though. No longer can we throw around our check book and buy players when we want.
I find it hard that some of you think that the using the draft to get back up the ladder isn't the way we should be using.
Hell, this is what got us into trouble in the first place.
We didn't embrace the draft and use it to our advantage.

I think with the Foreign Legion that we brought in overachieved last year.
While it was great to see so many of them put in so much and become better players over the year for it, I felt that there may have been a case of second year blues for some of them. So far, it has happened to a few of them.

Seriously, do you honestly think it would hurt for one year to bottom out and pick up two quality kids? Who knows what we could get?!?! A key forward and a key defender...or a gun midfielder and a ruckman....or two gun midfielders etc etc These are what we desperately need.

I also honestly believe that we will have it over St.Kilda if we were to get a priority pick this year. While St.Kilda have an abundance of talent and first rounders in their side, they won't win a flag under Thomas' guidance.
Also, somewhere in this thread, someone said that Geelong have developed as a team with many middle of the road first rounders and that we could achieve those same feats. I don't think we could.
You think about what happened yesterday and the style of footy we have been playing...the fact that we lost Goddard, Wells and two other players is really starting to take an effect on our team's march back up the ladder.

In conclusion, while it pains me to see Carlton lingering at the bottom of the ladder, in a way this years draft could be the draft that turns it around for us. If we acquire two quality kids between Pick 1 and 6, we are already on the way back up.
As Tyrant said, play the quality kids and expose them to the big time. Play the Davies, the Benticks, the Normans, the Setanta's, the Hartletts and the Russells (god im sounding like Gary Ayres here) and let's see what they can do. If they look like they are burning out, drop them back to the reserves for a few weeks for a re-charge.

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To be honest though, PJ, I don't think playing (say) Hartlett in a backpocket ahead of someone like Morrell is going to DIMINISH our chances of success.

Playing the good kids we have is just a matter of faith, but not necessarily a matter of tanking. We'd still be playing to win, of course... and hoping we do.

All our kids have either had a taste and shown a bit, or are gunning in the VFL and deserving a chance.

Just pick them and STILL play to win

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Yeah that's what I'm talking about and agreeing with you about.
If we play the good kids (Bentick, Setanta, Russell etc etc), like you said, are we worse off if we play someone like a Longmuir or a Morrell?
Not at all.

The upside to playing the good kids is that we are able to see what they can do, what they can't do. Then Pagan can identify their weaknesses, sit down with them, talk about it and go about rectifying the problem/s.

Helps immensely with their overall development.

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Twitter - @johnfeeney24

Tyrant and PJ agree 100 percent play the kids, bottom out and lets take it from there.

At least we will be giving Pagen the resources he needs to build a top 4 /priemiership team not one that wil finish between ninth and fifth

I hate the though of us being last or down near the bottom again but I do not see any other avenue

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Playing the kids is the only way to go, and I'm sure there will be a number of changes to side starting this week.

It may cost us losing a few games because of this approach, but will aid the long term future and eventual march back up the ladder.

The next 4 weeks will define our seasons prospects. Geelong, Melbourne Adelaide, and Sydney