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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 8:33 am 
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Robert Walls
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Donstuie wrote:
Conundrum wrote:
Donstuie wrote:
Conundrum wrote:
Funnily enough discussion in the forums is now centred on gaining the services of arguably the best player in the competition. It would be fair to say that we would not be in the box seat to secure Judd's services without the priority pick which has in effect provided us with the opportunity to sacrifice our much sought after draft pick no 3 as part ofour trade offer.

I am sure these anti tankers are now salivating at the thought of watching Judd in Carlton colours but the question must be asked. Do they now concede that they have lost the ideological battle and the decision to secure a priority pick was in Carlton's long term interests?

Conundrum


Nice try in trying to gain the moral high ground, but you're doomed to fail. You won't find an anti-tanker here that has ever said they wouldn't gladly accept whatever came up in the draft regardless of how the season played out. So if you're trying to insinuate that people who wanted us to win regardless of the situation should feel embarassed and/or defeated because of this, then you're a sad excuse for a supporter of this club.

But out of interest, if we did get Judd and he turned out to be a limping dud, does that give me permission to point the finger at you and say 'I told you so', and make a thread talking about how much of a goose you must be now? Should I take glee in such a thing? Of course not, because it would mean our club suffers. Just like we should suffer when we lose games.

Get over yourself.


Quite defensive there, obviously this thread has hit a raw nerve. Now with the benefit of hindsight, would you have preferred to have won another game or two or three for that matter or be placed in the current position that will quite likely deliver usboth the best player in the land and best youngster?.

Whilst you ponder this, I will try to get over myself.

Conundrum


Everyone here knows how I would answer that question so I don't need to waste space going over it.

BTW, if you barrack for us to win next year, does that mean YOU should admit to losing the ideological battle next year? After all, if we lose every game we'll get another #1 pick. You do want us to get another of those, don't you? You certainly would have egg on your face should another brownlow and Norm Smith medallist come on the market and you were too busy cheering us to win and thus supporting us to shoot ourselves in the foot. Unless of course you do the right thing and hope for us to lose :roll:

No doubt you would think it outrageous to be questioned about supprting your club next year, much like no-one should be questioned for doing it this year. No-one should have to admit that they are wrong about their stand on this, because it's all through a love of this football club. Both sides are right, and both sides are wrong, and most understand this. It's people like you that throw a spanner in the works because you're more concerned with being right than the welfare of this football club, otherwise this thread wouldn't exist.

And yes, good luck getting over yourself. It'll be an uphill battle I'm sure.



I don't agree with taking the moral high ground on this one, but you must admit Don, the Judd thread is getting a bit long and we need to debate something fresh. :roll: :lol:

Seriously though, to be fair, I doubt very much whether people here were barracking for losses in the first 15 rounds (or so) of this season, I imagine they wanted to win just as much as yourself! I wouldn't say that either side is right or wrong, but just don't assume that anyone here is a bad supporter if they were eyeing the prize near the end of the season.

Regardless of how it came about (I think it was always going to be ours regardless of all the tanking talk) no one here can argue that we are not in better position now that we have picks 1, 3 and 20 than if we had picks 3 and 21.

I couldn't care less about being right or wrong, I am too excited about the upcoming draft/trade period to care anyway! GO BLUES!

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 9:38 am 
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Stephen Silvagni
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If we're in the box seat for Judd, Collingwood aren't all that far behind at all, and they're playing a Preliminary Final this week.

:? :?


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 9:51 am 
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Ken Hunter
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I wouldn't be too sure about that Verbs. Judd has his reservations about playing "home" games at concrete park ... surprise ... His really concerned about his legs over the rest of his career.

Good move Collo but you knew that all along right?


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:08 am 
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John Nicholls
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Look the point is no one gives a flower whether we won 4 games, 6 games or 8 games now. It doesn't matter. We wouldn't be playing finals and that's all that does matter. But now we have two picks in the top 3 and that has become a very rare opportunity due to the new rules.

I mean honestly once 08s underway no one will care how many games we won last year, it will be about how many games we're going to win this year and next and one after that etc. and the PP will help make that more than it has been in coming years


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:10 am 
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John Nicholls
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Mil Hanna wrote:
Donstuie wrote:
Conundrum wrote:
Donstuie wrote:
Conundrum wrote:
Funnily enough discussion in the forums is now centred on gaining the services of arguably the best player in the competition. It would be fair to say that we would not be in the box seat to secure Judd's services without the priority pick which has in effect provided us with the opportunity to sacrifice our much sought after draft pick no 3 as part ofour trade offer.

I am sure these anti tankers are now salivating at the thought of watching Judd in Carlton colours but the question must be asked. Do they now concede that they have lost the ideological battle and the decision to secure a priority pick was in Carlton's long term interests?

Conundrum


Nice try in trying to gain the moral high ground, but you're doomed to fail. You won't find an anti-tanker here that has ever said they wouldn't gladly accept whatever came up in the draft regardless of how the season played out. So if you're trying to insinuate that people who wanted us to win regardless of the situation should feel embarassed and/or defeated because of this, then you're a sad excuse for a supporter of this club.

But out of interest, if we did get Judd and he turned out to be a limping dud, does that give me permission to point the finger at you and say 'I told you so', and make a thread talking about how much of a goose you must be now? Should I take glee in such a thing? Of course not, because it would mean our club suffers. Just like we should suffer when we lose games.

Get over yourself.


Quite defensive there, obviously this thread has hit a raw nerve. Now with the benefit of hindsight, would you have preferred to have won another game or two or three for that matter or be placed in the current position that will quite likely deliver usboth the best player in the land and best youngster?.

Whilst you ponder this, I will try to get over myself.

Conundrum


Everyone here knows how I would answer that question so I don't need to waste space going over it.

BTW, if you barrack for us to win next year, does that mean YOU should admit to losing the ideological battle next year? After all, if we lose every game we'll get another #1 pick. You do want us to get another of those, don't you? You certainly would have egg on your face should another brownlow and Norm Smith medallist come on the market and you were too busy cheering us to win and thus supporting us to shoot ourselves in the foot. Unless of course you do the right thing and hope for us to lose :roll:

No doubt you would think it outrageous to be questioned about supprting your club next year, much like no-one should be questioned for doing it this year. No-one should have to admit that they are wrong about their stand on this, because it's all through a love of this football club. Both sides are right, and both sides are wrong, and most understand this. It's people like you that throw a spanner in the works because you're more concerned with being right than the welfare of this football club, otherwise this thread wouldn't exist.

And yes, good luck getting over yourself. It'll be an uphill battle I'm sure.



I don't agree with taking the moral high ground on this one, but you must admit Don, the Judd thread is getting a bit long and we need to debate something fresh. :roll: :lol:

Seriously though, to be fair, I doubt very much whether people here were barracking for losses in the first 15 rounds (or so) of this season, I imagine they wanted to win just as much as yourself! I wouldn't say that either side is right or wrong, but just don't assume that anyone here is a bad supporter if they were eyeing the prize near the end of the season.

Regardless of how it came about (I think it was always going to be ours regardless of all the tanking talk) no one here can argue that we are not in better position now that we have picks 1, 3 and 20 than if we had picks 3 and 21.

I couldn't care less about being right or wrong, I am too excited about the upcoming draft/trade period to care anyway! GO BLUES!



Here here. Well put


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:14 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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There's a lot of quotes there jake...which one are you Hear hearing?


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:44 am 
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Ken Hunter
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Mrs Caz wrote:
There's a lot of quotes there jake...which one are you Hear hearing?


here here 8)

oh and we we do not land Judd does that mean we shoulkd have won more games AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 11:05 am 
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Harry Vallence

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Mods can we move this thread to the St Kilda board please.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 11:24 am 
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Robert Walls
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dannyboy wrote:
Mrs Caz wrote:
There's a lot of quotes there jake...which one are you Hear hearing?


here here 8)

oh and we we do not land Judd does that mean we shoulkd have won more games AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH


Nup. It doesn't matter if we get him or not, we will still be in an excellent position come draft/trade time. :-D

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 11:39 am 
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Bruce Doull
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jake_h03 wrote:
Mil Hanna wrote:
Donstuie wrote:
Conundrum wrote:
Donstuie wrote:
Conundrum wrote:
Funnily enough discussion in the forums is now centred on gaining the services of arguably the best player in the competition. It would be fair to say that we would not be in the box seat to secure Judd's services without the priority pick which has in effect provided us with the opportunity to sacrifice our much sought after draft pick no 3 as part ofour trade offer.

I am sure these anti tankers are now salivating at the thought of watching Judd in Carlton colours but the question must be asked. Do they now concede that they have lost the ideological battle and the decision to secure a priority pick was in Carlton's long term interests?

Conundrum


Nice try in trying to gain the moral high ground, but you're doomed to fail. You won't find an anti-tanker here that has ever said they wouldn't gladly accept whatever came up in the draft regardless of how the season played out. So if you're trying to insinuate that people who wanted us to win regardless of the situation should feel embarassed and/or defeated because of this, then you're a sad excuse for a supporter of this club.

But out of interest, if we did get Judd and he turned out to be a limping dud, does that give me permission to point the finger at you and say 'I told you so', and make a thread talking about how much of a goose you must be now? Should I take glee in such a thing? Of course not, because it would mean our club suffers. Just like we should suffer when we lose games.

Get over yourself.


Quite defensive there, obviously this thread has hit a raw nerve. Now with the benefit of hindsight, would you have preferred to have won another game or two or three for that matter or be placed in the current position that will quite likely deliver usboth the best player in the land and best youngster?.

Whilst you ponder this, I will try to get over myself.

Conundrum


Everyone here knows how I would answer that question so I don't need to waste space going over it.

BTW, if you barrack for us to win next year, does that mean YOU should admit to losing the ideological battle next year? After all, if we lose every game we'll get another #1 pick. You do want us to get another of those, don't you? You certainly would have egg on your face should another brownlow and Norm Smith medallist come on the market and you were too busy cheering us to win and thus supporting us to shoot ourselves in the foot. Unless of course you do the right thing and hope for us to lose :roll:

No doubt you would think it outrageous to be questioned about supprting your club next year, much like no-one should be questioned for doing it this year. No-one should have to admit that they are wrong about their stand on this, because it's all through a love of this football club. Both sides are right, and both sides are wrong, and most understand this. It's people like you that throw a spanner in the works because you're more concerned with being right than the welfare of this football club, otherwise this thread wouldn't exist.

And yes, good luck getting over yourself. It'll be an uphill battle I'm sure.



I don't agree with taking the moral high ground on this one, but you must admit Don, the Judd thread is getting a bit long and we need to debate something fresh. :roll: :lol:

Seriously though, to be fair, I doubt very much whether people here were barracking for losses in the first 15 rounds (or so) of this season, I imagine they wanted to win just as much as yourself! I wouldn't say that either side is right or wrong, but just don't assume that anyone here is a bad supporter if they were eyeing the prize near the end of the season.

Regardless of how it came about (I think it was always going to be ours regardless of all the tanking talk) no one here can argue that we are not in better position now that we have picks 1, 3 and 20 than if we had picks 3 and 21.

I couldn't care less about being right or wrong, I am too excited about the upcoming draft/trade period to care anyway! GO BLUES!



Here here. Well put


Well said Mil, and I do agree. We are in a better position because of our results, and our list will most definitely be stronger next year as a result. But I don't think I'll ever look back and think "Wow, thank god we lost all those games" because the most important thing to me is this club winning games, rather "Thank god we had smart people handling our recruiting" is more what my line of thinking will be like.

What pisses me off is this idea that people who were cheering for us to win every week should admit they were 'wrong' or 'not caring about the best interests of the club' as some have asserted, when neither is true and it's outright slander. Just like I wouldn't even dare coming out and demanding tankers admit they are wrong should Kreuzer, Cotchin/Palmer/Morton or even Judd turn out to be duds for us and set us back further. It's not right to do this, it's not right to call people up on their loyalty to this club (I'm guilty of this too, and know now I went too far sometimes) if their stance is only born from the best interests of it.

It's a different story for opportunists who want to take what has been a very trying and emotional time, and make themselves feel big or morally superior. That goes for both sides. People no doubt view me in this light, but I can tell you, if anti-tankers prove to be right down the road, you won't see me starting threads like this. If I do, I'll hand over my address, leave the key under the mat, and you can come to my house and kill me in my sleep ;)

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 12:25 pm 
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At the risk of asking for group hugs and a communal singing of Kumbaya -remember we are all united in our love for our football team and the only thing we should be concentrating on is our glorious future. What’s past is past.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 12:59 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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Blue Bird wrote:
At the risk of asking for group hugs and a communal singing of Kumbaya -remember we are all united in our love for our football team and the only thing we should be concentrating on is our glorious future. What’s past is past.


GROUP HUG!!!

You can't say you weren't expecting it... :)




Seriously, I am an anti-tanker, but now what's happened has happened I'm happy enough.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 1:13 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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thehalford wrote:
Blue Bird wrote:
At the risk of asking for group hugs and a communal singing of Kumbaya -remember we are all united in our love for our football team and the only thing we should be concentrating on is our glorious future. What’s past is past.


GROUP HUG!!!

You can't say you weren't expecting it... :)




happiness is a warm hug mama

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 3:21 pm 
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All I will say is picks 1 and 3 after season 2007, will leave us in a far better position going forward than nearly any other combination (except for Pick 1 and 2) and the only way we were ever going to get that was really tanking. :wink:

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 6:01 pm 
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Bert Deacon
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camelboy wrote:
#2 and #19

;)


We would've been ahead of Melbourne, and so would still have landed pick 3.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 8:34 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni

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Season 2007 is over...thank god!

I hated watching my team lose (always will) and I was feeling empty, but content when we lost in the last 6 rounds. It was an awful feeling, something I hadn't experienced in my whole Dark Navy Blue life; something I don't want to endure ever again.

I am so excited we have 1, 3 and 20. I feel shithouse we were ripped off by the AFL last year and we didn't land Leuenberger, but today I'm content with the thought Kruezer is ours for the keeping.

Yes the process was a pain, but with no pain there's no gain. It's done and dusted, and now we are in the ring for the services of Judd; we haven't got him, but we'll move forward with or without him. Yes he would look fantastic in the Dark Navy Blue, and I'm glad we are an candidate to secure his services. That tells me we are an attractive club again to those on the outside.

Now the question I ask myself is whether we have gained from (so called) tanking, and the answer is a definite YES. But thank god season 2007 is over.

I appreciate the position of the anti tankers (including in this thread eg Donstuie) and the pragmatic self enforced emotional numbing position of the tankers (AGRO). I have no doubt that the anti tankers are proud of their position, and the pro tankers feel vindicated with the outcome. I'm sure that the anti tankers welcome picks 1, 3 and 20, but they will always feel that tanking is a dirty word and not to be associated with Carlton.

You're all right!

We have picks 1, 3 and 20 and if one uses the argument that we we tanked to get to this position then perhaps they may be dismissing the possibility (likelihood) that we weren't good enough to win another game post the Port Adelaide win. Call it proud or an excuse, but we just weren't good enough in season 2007, but as a club we progressed in a strange way.

I believe we now have served our Black Friday penalties, and it's time for the Navy Blue Renaissance. Justice has been served with picks 1, 3 and 20.

Each to their own but lets stick together, and stick it right up them.

Conundrum is just curious, and so he should ask the question...so be it!

Go the Navy Blue Army.

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Last edited by bondiblue on Thu Sep 20, 2007 11:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 8:57 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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The tank was on to secure Judd.

Plain and simple.

We wanted that extra low pick and got it, so we get to have our Kreuzer and our Judd too.

The master plan is taking shape.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:47 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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bondiblue wrote:
I believe we now have served our Black Friday penalties, and it's time for the Navy Blue Renaissance. Justice has been served with picks 1, 3 and 20.



At the moment justice is only half done regarding what the AFL did to us on Black Friday 2002. :evil:

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 12:11 am 
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John Nicholls
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Mrs Caz wrote:
There's a lot of quotes there jake...which one are you Hear hearing?


Sorry, my bad. I was quoting this one cos it makes sense.
I don't agree with taking the moral high ground on this one, but you must admit Don, the Judd thread is getting a bit long and we need to debate something fresh.

Seriously though, to be fair, I doubt very much whether people here were barracking for losses in the first 15 rounds (or so) of this season, I imagine they wanted to win just as much as yourself! I wouldn't say that either side is right or wrong, but just don't assume that anyone here is a bad supporter if they were eyeing the prize near the end of the season.

Regardless of how it came about (I think it was always going to be ours regardless of all the tanking talk) no one here can argue that we are not in better position now that we have picks 1, 3 and 20 than if we had picks 3 and 21.

I couldn't care less about being right or wrong, I am too excited about the upcoming draft/trade period to care anyway! GO BLUES!

I wanted us to win, but once the season was done (about round 14 - 15) I didn't want us to start winning a few games, end up 10th with pick 9 or something and miss out on a golden (and now rare) opportunity to get 2 picks before the other teams get 1 (except for richmond)

I know it sucks to want to lose but its the AFLs fault for making such a crappy rule


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 11:03 pm 
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Harry Vallence

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jake_h03 wrote:
Mrs Caz wrote:
There's a lot of quotes there jake...which one are you Hear hearing?


Sorry, my bad. I was quoting this one cos it makes sense.
I don't agree with taking the moral high ground on this one, but you must admit Don, the Judd thread is getting a bit long and we need to debate something fresh.

Seriously though, to be fair, I doubt very much whether people here were barracking for losses in the first 15 rounds (or so) of this season, I imagine they wanted to win just as much as yourself! I wouldn't say that either side is right or wrong, but just don't assume that anyone here is a bad supporter if they were eyeing the prize near the end of the season.

Regardless of how it came about (I think it was always going to be ours regardless of all the tanking talk) no one here can argue that we are not in better position now that we have picks 1, 3 and 20 than if we had picks 3 and 21.

I couldn't care less about being right or wrong, I am too excited about the upcoming draft/trade period to care anyway! GO BLUES!

I wanted us to win, but once the season was done (about round 14 - 15) I didn't want us to start winning a few games, end up 10th with pick 9 or something and miss out on a golden (and now rare) opportunity to get 2 picks before the other teams get 1 (except for richmond)

I know it sucks to want to lose but its the AFLs fault for making such a crappy rule


It was a good post, but the only thing wrong with it was that people WERE wanting us to tank before round 15. The tanking thread started at round 4 which is why i was so strongly against it. It besotted me how any Carlton supporter could want us to start losing at Round 4? Write our season off so early. Anyway, at the time I said that if were stuck on 4 games later in the year (say round 18-19 or whatever) then I wouldn't have a problem with playing a young (likely to lose) side. But at Round 4... come on!


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