I can only assume you are talking about the Roos, which I wouldn't exactly call talentless.

They may have a few "no-names" in their team, but they have talent. The problem is that the majority of their most talented players (based on their performances during the last few seasons) are also their most experienced and, oldest. The media (and everyone else) has been waiting for them to fall flat on their arses this year, but instead their younger brigade has stepped up under the guidance of their veterans.

Look at Hamish McIntosh. A nobody last year, possibility of AA ruckman this year. He has had good leadership, something we haven't for a while. Guess what???? He was a 1st round selection in the draft!!!!!!! Who would have thought...........

Don, can you remind me how many first round draft picks that the Roos have in their squad? OK, I'll tell you:

A. Simpson
S. Grant
D. Hale
L. Brown
B. Rawlings
L. Thomas
H. McIntosh
D. Harris
L. Hansen

That's 9, and if my memory serves me correctly 8 played in the team that smashed us on the weekend.

Talent doesn't grow on trees Don, it comes from the draft.


Oh....... Hang on........ You weren't talking about Collingwood were you?

_________________
"If everyone is moving forward together, then success takes care of itself" - Henry Ford

_________________
" Koutoufides has taken the last quarter by the scruff of the neck..." Commentary Drew Morphett Last Qtr '99 Prelim. Pure Gold.

Thanks for the memories Kouta. You are and always will be a True Blue Carlton Legend. #43.

Ah yes the filth..the great defyers of logic and rule of law when it comes to constant failure and under achievement....

_________________
" Koutoufides has taken the last quarter by the scruff of the neck..." Commentary Drew Morphett Last Qtr '99 Prelim. Pure Gold.

Thanks for the memories Kouta. You are and always will be a True Blue Carlton Legend. #43.

Most certainly not talking about the filth, but rather the team that, despite having oh so many draft picks in their team, was tipped by everyone to finish bottom of the ladder at the start of this year. Wonder why that was. Wonder if it's got to do with everyone saying their list isn't that much better than ours

How many of those players you listed would you consider genuine stars? Simpson, Grant, McIntosh, Rawlings? That's half. The rest are solid contributors at best (Brown is not even guaranteed a spot in the team anymore). But they're successful because they're playing with spirit and commitment. Port are another example of this. A team of about 4-5 guns, and a bunch of has-beens and kids from late in the draft. Must be doing something right.

Talent certainly doesn't grow on trees, and it doesn't just 'happen' from the draft. It comes from list management also, and good coaching. Need I remind you of Livo and Vancey?

Also, how many of our top 5 in the B&F this year do you predict to be from this group of #1 picks and not from later ones? Carrots, Simmo, Scotland, Fish, Houlihan, Waite? Wait a minute, NONE of these guys were 1st round picks. What's up with dat???

There was an article in the Hun you might find interesting, on pg 77. In a nutshell only 11% of top 3 picks have played in a premiership for the team they started with, since Graham Wright in 1990. Also, the two top teams in the comp at the moment (Geelong and Port) have gone without top-3 picks for a very long time. Cats last top-3 was Hooper in 1990, and Port have rebounded from a flag not long ago.

Draft picks are a means to an end, not the end itself. If you think it's going to magically change our fortunes without A LOT of work you are delusional.

Quote from the article sums it up pretty well

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WADA medical director Dr Alan Vernec describes Essendon* FC drug case as biggest scandal in team sport the world of sport has seen. #WC2WB

#GUILTY

Don, Don, Don………

First of all my friend, just because everyone says it is so, doesn’t mean it’s true! Who cares where everyone tipped the Roos to finish this year, they were wrong, weren’t they? It just shows that they had no idea about the Roos list, just like how everyone outside Carlton thinks that we have a terrible list! The only people that truly know about the strength, and indeed talent, of a clubs list are those on the inside that are developing that list. We do not have a bad list; we just have a young and inexperienced list, with no experienced, true leaders to show the way. With Matty Lappin’s retirement I think the oldest player we have is 27 years old. We will be a force in years to come, but it aint gonna happen while the talent we have picked from the draft is still aged 18-22. It will happen when these guys are experienced, seasoned footballers, in their prime years.

Look at the guys you mention from their list of 1st rounders: Simpson, Grant, McIntosh, and Rawlings. (By the way, I forgot to mention D. Wells, how could I forget!!) Their 1st rounders that even you consider genuine stars are experienced, seasoned footballers, with the exception of McIntosh. Even then, McIntosh has come of age this year, and he is 24; entering his prime. To compare our 1st rounders to theirs is a joke. Apples and oranges, Don. Our 1st round picks are all babies in football terms, and surprise, surprise the eldest (at 21) and most experienced is also our best performed, Andrew Walker, which I am surprised to see you omitted from your top 5 in the B&F list!

From the 5 guys you do mention, (which Waite doesn’t count due to father-son rule) they should be in our best players every week; these guys are in their prime! And without being critical (because I actually really love these guys playing for the navy blue) don’t you think if these were more talented (in which case would have possibly been picked up earlier in the draft) that we would have won quite a few more games over the last few years????? They are all developing into great players now, but just imagine if we never had to work on Fish’s goal kicking, or Waite & Carrots’ field kicking, I’m sure we would have snuck in for a few more wins.

I don’t even want to bother discussing Port Adelaide, but out of interest:

1st round picks:

S. Salopek
C. Cornes
K. Cornes
D. Pearce
T. Chaplin
D. Motlop
T. Boak
S. Burgoyne

Plus:

B. Ebert (Father-Son)
M. Wilson (Zone)
B. Lade (Zone)
W. Tredrea (Zone)
P. Burgoyne (Zone)

Which you could argue would also have been 1st round picks, had they been available to other clubs.

I am sick to death of people bringing up Murray Vance and Luke Livingston as examples of how the draft hasn’t worked for us!!!!!!!! It is 2007 for god’s sake. There is so much money and research put into the draft nowadays that mistakes rarely happen. Dick Pratt has put the best people in place to manage the list and I would be amazed if there was a mistake made at the draft table.

To quote something from the hun is stooping a little low Don, but I’ll let it go this time. The fact that someone has bothered to look at the statistics for only the top 3 draft picks over the history of the draft amuses me. What a pointless article. What would be interesting *cue Jarusa* is to get the stats on say the last 10-15 premiership sides, and the break down of where their players were selected in the draft.

_________________
"If everyone is moving forward together, then success takes care of itself" - Henry Ford

You said it, not me




You don't realise it, but you've actually proved my actual point here (not the point you think I'm making, the one I actually AM making that you're missing completely). Try and find it



Classic. I'll get a plaque with this one



So you're saying that late draft picks can actually develop into great players that can be just as good as, if not better, than someone in the 1st round? Or that because they didn't go 1st rd they're naturally destined to never be that great?

Nonetheless I'm sure Fish and Waitey would be rapt to hear that no matter how much they improve they'll never be as good as a 1st rd pick will be. I'll inform their mums



Half of these guys took off in their first couple of seasons. Wonder why that could be. Oh wait a minute, I forgot we weren't comparing picks

If you've got time, go through the Port team that beat Geelong over the weekend, and tell me how many NON 1st rd picks were in the team, and then do the same for the Cats. I doubt you will of course, but you might find it an interesting exercise.



Proof?



Why are you sick of it? Because it presents a flaw in your fantasy that all early picks are destined to be stars? It's reality, deal with it. They, like any other kid coming into league footy, are at risk of not realising their potential through injury or other reasons. They are two examples of why being a high draft pick is NO guarantee of success, regardless of what club they're from. Livo in particular had great wraps on him and rightfully went early in the draft, but through no fault of the recruiting staff and through bad fortune alone, he was never able to realise that potential. Sometimes shit happens.


Way to not face up to reality Mil



Which would be kinda stupid considering basically every team in the league receives a 1st rd pick every year, ergo most premiership teams will have one, and thus making your argument seem to be fool-proof. Some might go #5, #7 or even (GASP) #12. But I would get a laugh from your triumphant "SEE? EVERY PREMIERSHIP TEAM HAS A 1ST RD PICK! TOLD YA SO!" nonetheless

And yes, it IS interesting that they only look at the top 3 draft picks. Could it be because of this fantasy everyone's living in that a top 3 pick is going to ensure success for the club? Hmmm...guess that means you'll be happy if we just got #4 right, considering how flawed these statistics are?

Seriously, the amount of ground that you cover to avoid facing up to my actual point astounds me. If you weren't so interested in irrelevance and pedantics you might actually find where you and I see eye to eye. I'll let you find that yourself though.

_________________
WADA medical director Dr Alan Vernec describes Essendon* FC drug case as biggest scandal in team sport the world of sport has seen. #WC2WB

#GUILTY

Not going to bother anymore. I actually spend some time to come up with some facts to support my argument and all you do is blow them off because I don't agree with you.

Then you try the old "you just proved my point, but it's cryptic, just have a read of my posts again" bullshit without backing anything you say up with facts, instead you just quote a hun article that is rubbish and that's your argument? Go get some perspective!

Just don't come on here beaming at how good our early draft picks are next year or thereafter, because you didn't think we needed them.

_________________
"If everyone is moving forward together, then success takes care of itself" - Henry Ford