I'm with you EB.

You wouldn't have the guts to be Wayne Hughes on National Draft Day and call out the name "Joe Bloggs" after Demetrispew calls out Pick 1 Carlton, instead of "Matthew Kreuzer".

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"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

Winston Churchill

We qualified for the PP last year given the sum of wins over the two year period was 7.5 .

Can anyone tell me why it was not received? It's blatantly obvious the AFL make the rules up as they go depending on who they want to succeed. Had we got the PP last year we'd have Leuenberger, and talk of tanking and Kruzer wouldn't be needed.


The saints have had all the benefits, as have the dorks and dogs - now we look like we're assembling a strong squad they want to change the rules. They'll change them back when Sydney sink back to the bottom - mark my words.

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I, like many Blues fans, want the PP but hate myself for sort of not minding of we lose. I really wish we had dropped the Bulldogs game then we could win another game. At the Pies match on Saturday when I thought we could win I thought it would at least take the pressure off us supporters by not making us conflicted.

The fact is that if you ask a Saints supporter for instance, whether they would rather have Reiwoldt or have won an extra game or two in the year before that draft, the answer is pretty obvious. Having said that the only way we can aspire to lose to the Dees is to have all four interchange run on in the last quarter. Get a player count and have our score to that point cancelled.

But re the media clowns accusing the club of tanking:
1. If the committee wanted to tank, why sack Pagan. Clearly the wheels had fallen off and we were heading for a PP without doubt. So how can we be accused of tanking when we have taken action that will most likely lose us the PP?

2. Why would Ratts want to lose every game when he wants to prove he is a senior coach - not just to us but to three other clubs searching for a coach. And the media had Vossy signed and sealed a week ago so Ratts would have no incentive to tank us when he wasn't going to get the job.

3. Why would the players tank. 6-10 of them will be delisted come season's end. Bad performance will mean a drop of $100-$400k in their salaries. And if we get a PP then one extra player will have to go to make room.

4. A few weeks ago all the knowledgeable pundits were telling us our list was diabolical. After several 100 pt losses and DPs sacking the media wanted to know who could possibly do better. Now suddenly if we don't beat pre season flag favourite the Saints or top 4 aspirant the Pies we are tanking. Can't have it both ways. If our list is as bad as the pundits claim, why would a close loss to Saints and Pies be tanking?

5. The AFL rules on lists require constant turn over which means that each year sides have to make assements on players. Obviously sides who can't make the finals will make those assessments near the end of the season and try young players. The AFL rules dictate this is what clubs need to do.

6. In pre drafting days the sides with no chance of the finals were likely to be dispirited and disinterested come seasons end and were easy beats. Were they tanking? No they were just not very good and were playing sides with much more incentive.

7. Why on earth would a side with Carlton' appalling record since 2002 not be entitled to a PP. Isn't that the whole point of drafting and the PP system, to try and equalise the competition and ensure sides don't spend too long at the bottom. We have the worst record of any team for the entire history of the draft. Why is it only an isue when we will finally benefit?

ergo we are not tanking, but if we get the PP then so be it.

PS happy to do the Bombers a favour and let them play the Dees in Melbourne in the last game and we'll go to Perth to play the WCE

I'm betting Fev will smack Mal Michael and get a 2 match ban .

I think we're kidding ourselves that we were that bad under Pagan, or we are that good under Ratten. Somewhere in the middle is probably about right.

I still don't know what to want. It all depends on Asaike and Hampson - If these two are top quality ruckman then I want to win against all oposition especially the bombers. If they're duds I'm happy to finish the season here and now and focus on 2008.

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I wonder if Sheedy will tank against us as his last act of revenge

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#DonTheStash

Up until 2005 you could get a priority pick if you won less than 5 games in any given season. That year the filth and the dorks blatantly tanked to also qualify for the PP and there was an uproar. We won 4.5 games that season.

So, given that the next draft was going to be a 'super' draft, what do the AFL do? They don't penalise either of the other teams and change the criteria for a 'real' PP (before round 1) to FOUR games or less TWO years in a row. It's not a sum of two years, it has to be four or less in BOTH years (so a 5 - 2 combination doesn't work etc).

Now that's probably fair enough but what pisses me off (and so many others) is the change of criteria from five to four games when they KNEW we won 4.5 in 2005 making absolutely certain that no one qualifies for a PP the next year. In effect screwing us over again.

Flowering pricks!!

Be nice to get one back this year won't it? No spoon plus 2 picks in top 5

Let's be totally selfish shall we......after all the bloody AFL raped us when they had the chance. I'm sure the players and coaches are not delibrately tanking games but at the same time and at the end of the day human nature tells you if they can get the best available talent they wouldn't say no. The fact is we will probably still be nearer the bottom next year - if we are genarally going to have the youngest team in the AFL, that's to be expected. I genuienly hope not....but lets get what we can before they change the rules forever.

What he said, lets rort the draft this year and flower the AFL who flowered us when they changed the rules.

It would be STUPID to win another game this year to stop the tanking talk. No long term benefit at all.

I hope so.
Essendon* lose this week and they're definitely out of the 8.
Sheedy installed as MFC coach.
Essendon* can't beat Carlton anyway.
If not we can still get you in R22 - we are truly horrible!

Ratten " ... youngest team in 37 years ..." - No you're not tanking.

old55, you seem a sensible man, you can't seriously want that old self promotong fraud Sheedy as your coach.

Let's get into song guys for Round 22

Its a grand old flag
Its a high flying flag
Its the emblem for me and for you
Its the emblem of the team we love
The team of the red and the blue
Everyheart beats true
For the red and the blue
And we sing this song to you
Should auld acquaintance be forgot
Keep your eye on the red and the blue

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“It is a state of mind, a system of belief, a way of seeing the world, a deep faith that, because you are Carlton, you belong to something great.” - Mike Fitzpatrick articulating what Out of the Blue means.

For the love of God what has this world come to...

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" Koutoufides has taken the last quarter by the scruff of the neck..." Commentary Drew Morphett Last Qtr '99 Prelim. Pure Gold.

Thanks for the memories Kouta. You are and always will be a True Blue Carlton Legend. #43.

Even though Fev missed the game, what's changed since you beat us in round 14?

Both sides shouldn't have sacked their coach.

PS. Fev has a very sore thigh.

Sorry, my mistake. Sometimes I get confused about the level of patheticness we've achieved, and in which years they were achieved in.

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Don't hide where your real allegiances are Dom, you want to lose, you know you do!

That whole crap about beating the filth, was just bravado - you want to lose to the Power, you want us to 'beat' the Scum, but don't care about the Roos of the Dees!

It a Grand Old Flag

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“It is a state of mind, a system of belief, a way of seeing the world, a deep faith that, because you are Carlton, you belong to something great.” - Mike Fitzpatrick articulating what Out of the Blue means.

I will never stoop to the level of reciting the song of an enemy team even though it is only the pitiful demons...

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" Koutoufides has taken the last quarter by the scruff of the neck..." Commentary Drew Morphett Last Qtr '99 Prelim. Pure Gold.

Thanks for the memories Kouta. You are and always will be a True Blue Carlton Legend. #43.

I don't get the negativity from opposition supporters towards Josh. You'd be hard pressed to find a Pie supporter that wasn't happy with his contribution to our team.

Certainly didn't turn out to be the star ruckman we'd been hoping for, but a very good player nonetheless.

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SIDE BY SIDE
COOOOOLLLLLIIIINGWOOOOOOOD

I'd take Fraser over the Hack any day of the week.

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“It is a state of mind, a system of belief, a way of seeing the world, a deep faith that, because you are Carlton, you belong to something great.” - Mike Fitzpatrick articulating what Out of the Blue means.

This should be our theme song if we win another game:

Song sung blue
Everybody knows one
Song sung blue
Every garden grows one

Me and you are subject to the blues now and then
But when you take the blues and make a song
You sing them out again
Sing them out again

Song sung blue
Weeping like a willow
Song sung blue
Sleeping on my pillow

Funny thing, but you can sing it with a cry in your voice
And before you know it, start to feeling good
You simply got no choice

Song sung blue
Everybody knows one
Song sung blue
Every garden grows one

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"I had to eat"