Pagan is so out of his depth now it's not funny. Most of his very few wins in his time with us have been nail biters where we've just scraped in. There has only been 3 or 4 games where we have actually totally out played the opposition.

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"We used to sit around and talk about how bad the game plan was." Anthony Koutoufides

http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/footy/ ... 42,00.html

Played the kids huh?

I don't count sitting them on the bench getting splinters in their arse all day as 'playing the kids'.

I don't call persisting with the likes of Sporn & Teague etc in the seniors while Setanta, Bower, Blackwell, are screaming for some senior development minutes as 'playing the kids'

Pagan = a master politician.

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There's so much I could say...

Gee this thread went quiet.

BV - You're talking about tempo footy, ala Adelaide & Sydney, which is the ability to switch between possession football and low-possession footy.

Sides that can halt the momentum of a surging opposition are the sides that win premierships.

How you do that changes all the time. Tempo football is one way, being a superior outfit is another. A loose man back is another way. It's all about the damage control, then seizing your opportunity.

And Scotland for 35 was a good trade.

TheGame - There's another factor that correlates with the lack and lacklustre of wins, and I won't say what it is because it's been done to death.

Budzy - will you be satisfied when the entire team is under 22? If not... when??

I see perfect sense in giving guys like Teague and Sporn a go when they're on their last chance. Teague is now just counting down the days until his contract finishes and helping out with club morale. His race is run.

We were struggling with a position for Carlos at AFL level until late last year and then he got his chance.

We gave Blackers some solid goes last year but with him, Scotland, Lappin & an injured Stevens running around it made our midfield a bit one-paced, and those guys didn't get much of a rest. Say what you want about that but they all have a big tanks and good skills.

Bower got his opportunity when form and injury permitted and did pretty well against Sydney. On top of that, it was his first year.

Who of Waite, Thornton & Setanta would you remove to put him in the side? Or would you throw him forward? We have a surplus of talls at both ends, he and Hartlett lost out coming into the season proper.

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29 different attributes,
And only 7 that you like;
20 ways to see the world,
Or 20 ways to start a fight.

Is there a coach thats been at a club for 4 years who has had nothing work ????

you look at whether most of his stuff has worked..... youre giving isolated examples....

Whatabout all the blokes who have been burnt?
Or his shit decisions?
His ratshit gameplan?

And his gibberish????

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

what blokes?

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

Yeah, who has been burnt that deserves a game today?

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|♥♥♥♥♥♥| http://www.blueseum.org |♥♥♥♥♥♥|

sporn






























































prenda







































JD

























































who?

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

Without wanting to fan the flames, I think Denis' biggest accomplishment is what he has done with Fev. There was a very likely chance that Fev could have been lost to football had Denis not been appointed as our coach. He was told he would be given the chop. Denis may not be the messiah we hoped he would be and he may not survive this year but there's some revisionism going on here. Players like Beaumont and Camporeale the club could do without. When the club needed them to stand up as leaders, they played for themselves. Let's see how this season goes before we start this disruptive nonsense of "let's sack the coach". Can we just enjoy today's win?

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I send an SOS to the world

Synbad, do you give him any credit for building a side of athletic talls (and I don't mean Lance ). Do you give him any credit for the current direct style? For all the effort to portray him as a dinosaur, he has produced a very modern team playing a game that takes full advantage of recent rule and interpretation changes.

Not only is the style more attractive to watch than the shit dished up by plenty of other sides, it is more effective. Would you like the rubbish that the master tactician Clarkson produced against Brisbane? Over 40 possessions per goal *shudder*

For a lot of today's game we still bombed the ball inside 50 to a 3 on 1 contest. You see West Coast and Sydney when they have the ball just outside 50. They don't bomb the ball in. They chip it around until they find someone free. Richmond tried it tonight but their skill level wasn't quite up to it. It is extremely frustrating seeing players bomb the ball in to a 3 on 1 contest.

From all reports at training the drills involve 6 forwards on 6 backs. Surely in today's game you need to prepare for the opposition having someone loose in defence.

B
O
I
N
G

And what is the alternative, Effes? Full contact training is dangerous. Collisions between forwards and loose defenders in training sessions is a recipe for disaster. Take away the collisions, and it ceases to be much of a simulation.

When you have 6 man-on-man contests, the chance of such collisions is reduced. It still presents a range of options which test the decision-making and disposal skills of the man with the ball.

What do you say the training should involve? It's easy to take pot-shots, but it's harder to come up with something constructive.

The training should involve 6 on 7 drills. Since when did it have to be full contact?

They can still give instructions to what someone should do when there is a loose man without actually having players contest.

Ok you put your eggs in the Lance basket...

Yeah im wrong... Lance isnt too slow.. the game couldnt have changed that much (he was not that great last year) ... Lance is just shit!!!

And i dont get why people dont stick up for McKernan or Teague .. theyre best and fairests too... but you wouldnt talk about them like theyre Judd and Brown though would you???

Boy some people dont get football...

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

If you're training the defenders, 6 on 6 would make sense.

I'd prefer drills involving delivery to the forward line. Use the loose men then.

_________________
29 different attributes,
And only 7 that you like;
20 ways to see the world,
Or 20 ways to start a fight.

What's the 6 on 7 drill? Where does the 7th man position himself? What do the players on either side do in that drill/simulation? Why 6 on 7 - why not 2 against 4?

As to physical contact, you know that a common tactic is to make the loose man who fills the hole in front of a leading forward earn it? Knee in back and the like. Part of JK's appeal is his ability and willingness to run through packs. But the risk of using such tactics in training is obvious. We don't have to simulate that sort of thing for the players to do it in a real game.

See, you aren't really setting out how such drills will benefit the players. Are you trying to educate our midfielders to try to pinpoint loose forwards on the flanks? Are you trying to teach our forwards how to mark when outnumbered?

Would you agree that one of the main strategic considerations when the other side is flooding the D50 is to use our loose men effectively in the midfield to close down the space that the rebounding defenders want to use?

It appears to me that we react pretty well to the other side dropping numbers back, and that means that whatever training we do is effective. In fact, we were winning the tactical battle at the beginning of the game when the Tigers had loose defenders. They found it difficult to score when we used our extra numbers defensively. Only when they reverted to a traditional 6 man forwardline and they abandoned the loose defenders did they come back into it.

Last I checked I was with you on this.

It's not a drill when you're running a full forward structure, it's more or less a match simulation then.

Being able to defend 1-on-1 is an asset you need in any era of the game, so putting the defending side under the pump 1-on-1 is good training to test the stragglers and keep everyone else sharp.

Offensively we look to isolate our targets in 1-on-1 or loose situations by means of switch plays, plain old quick movement of the ball, and sometimes holding the ball up through possession footy. Beyond that the onus is put on a level of understanding between the leading forward and the disposer reading the defense the same (similar to an option route in the NFL to those familiar) and aiming for the same pocket of space when presented. This obviously requires hard leading by our forwards, but we generally have the athleticism to cope.

Failing that, we centre the ball to a couple of designated hot-spots, which should be obvious to those watching the game. Our setup when the ball goes to ground still needs a bit of work though.

That's how you win games of footy when the heat is on and you are physically able to take it to the opposition. This talk of possession footy and flooding only works when you are able to keep up such a high intensity effort against your opponent. It's become quite clear that the sort of football built off that play is highly defensive and generally the last hope of the team employing the strategy, the exception being the Swans and maybe Adelaide, who display an incredible work rate to turn it into a form of attack. However, when the opportunity presents for them to play low possession, fast movement of the ball, they still play it.

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29 different attributes,
And only 7 that you like;
20 ways to see the world,
Or 20 ways to start a fight.

You play a finals brand of footy and therefore premiership footy when you play a man on man, corridor, minimum possession football. We win games with this kind of footy and have displayed that over the past 5 games.

What we need to do is learn to play it for 4qrts and to learn to kick to our forwards advantage rather than blaze away towards Fevola. We need to look for the best option and use multiple options. That will come with more confidence in each other and experience.

The shit that Sydney, Richmond and now StKilda play is just that. Tempo footy my ass. And before anyone says it; Sydney where lucky WestCost couldn't buy a goal in the 2005 Grand Final.

I hope Pagan keeps his nerve on this issue because I still enjoy watching Carlton play, although it's only in the 2nd half so far.