If you ask the old established players what they think of Britain as a coach they will rate him as one of the best coaches they ever had because of their comfort zone as they practically did what they liked of course it was different with the likes of Simon Fletcher, Trent Hotton, Murray Vance etc. and in my opinion that was the trouble with Pagan as he wanted full control of the players especially when the club was at its lower ebb.

That’s why the knives keeps flying at him, hopefully with Pratt on board this will be put to an end, plus only a couple players of the old regime still playing so Pagan can influence his younger players plus with the pressure of the evenness of the team, better results will be achieved from them.

Plus Pagan when he was at North he always was able to harness young players and got the best of them.

Why Elshaugh? That's a first for me.

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1945 - End of round 3 Carlton was last.

Last round Carlton made the final four for the first time.

Eventual premiers.

That's what I'm talking about!

I thought St Dick named him as Coach for Life in the interview on SEN just prior to the Hawthorn match ..

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[Sam Jacobs] looks like a 7' Lance Whitnall, and [Mitch Robinson] looks like a 4' Lance Whitnall
(The SEN team during the Carlton v Cats 2009 pre-season match)

I'm going to reserve my opinion on DP until at least half way into the season. However some of his quotes still worry me. Especially the one today about 2005 Wiz Cup..."We probably got in front of ourselves, we didn't know how to handle it" on sportal.com.au. Coming from a dual p'ship coach - it just sounds ridiculous - especially given that the '05 team was older and more experienced!!

..

Wake up and get your head out of the sand. We have the list there already to make an impact and start to move up the ladder in a hurry.

Why would we want to go through all of the pain of the last few years just to get another couple of draft picks?

Carlton is going places. It has the list in place now with a few top ups and the continued growth in people Aissake, Hampson, Anderson. Bower etc as well as players such as Kennedy (imagine how he will look in 2 years) and Gibbs. There is no doubt we will finish up the table this year which will provide the springboard for a move into the top 8, top 4 in the next couple of years and a real crack at flag no, 17.

Have a bit of faith in the boys.

..

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Watch out, Ryan8025 may surprise you all.

Waldo my head isn't in the sand my friend.

We are in a position right now where I hope we will never be in, in another 100 years.

Getting another 2 top 4 draft picks - is like gold and will have an immediate impact on the players you are talking about.

I love Aisake, I love Hampson, Anderson looks like he is going to be the tough nut back line player we need, Bower maybe another Ang Christou but with a bit of overhead grunt.

But another 2 top 4 draft picks will be the icing on the cake - we wont be in this position again and these 2 players will give our list the class and depth to have us challenging for the next 10 years.

Waldo - we dont have the Bendigo League anymore to pick up another Ashman or Southby. We dont have the cheque book to be able to pick up another Kernahan, Bradley, Motley, Dorotich, Spalding or Williams.

The Draft is the only way to get these guys.

The pain will quickly be forgotten when you see Murphy Mark II and Gibbs Mark II running around in Navy Blue.

The coffee is brewing - sand is nowhere in sight.

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"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

Winston Churchill

How about the players? They were the ones out there like witches hats in Navy Blue. I reckon if Pagan himself had have pulled a jumper on, he would have done better than most that day.

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And so while others miserably pledge themselves to the pursuit of ambition and brief power, I will be stretched out in the shade, singing.

I don't necessarily disagree with you Agro, however I am also concerned with the possibility of a player exodus at the end of this year similar to what nearly happened with the Thornton/Russell saga last year.

If both Hampson and Aisake can show promise this year as ruckman I will be happy with a top #10 draft pick - highly rated class midfielder in this years draft. Our key position prospects are well covered.

IMO we have done well in the draft in recent years and in 2008-2011 we will be a force to be reckoned with.

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There is no footy god

I find this whole discussion around wanting to finish bottom or close to it infuriating! It is nobody's fault on this site, it is the AFL's fault for continually rewarding mediocrity.

They should change the draft system to be the same as the NBA here in the U.S. where each of the bottom 8 teams goes into a lottery and you start pulling team names out of a barrel. That way no one can insinuate that teams are throwing games or not fielding their best teams in order to finish lower and get better draft picks.

Anyone else have an opinion on this?

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Wisdom tells me I am nothing
Love tells me I am everything
Between the two my life flows

Its no secret im not a fan of Pagan, but as i keep getting told by mates about the salary cap stuff and how we lost picks and couldnt trade etc. Ok that was a long time ago now and we have been able to trade and deal for a few years so for me to be happy with where Pagan is taking us i would want the following to happen this season:

1) No 60 plus point beltings by ANY team, we should be competitive enough to at least get within 60 points of any team on any ground

2) Keep blooding the youngsters ( Blackwell, Jackson, Bower, Edwards and co . )

3) Leave Ohailpin at full back no matter what, this bloke will be one of the best full backs going around based on what we saw in NAB cup. He loves the contest and is very very enthusiastic. Ryan Houlihan should take a leaf from Ohailpins book

4) As for wins, honestly i think anything less than 6 id be disappointed, BUT at the end of the day if i see the boys all out there busting a nut and we still lose, we cant be disappointed about that. Effort is all i ask for

NOTE: I really hope Ratts is our next coach

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Matty Kruzer you star!

The US-style draft lottery has been discussed in pretty great detail. I tend to agree with the concept.

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And so while others miserably pledge themselves to the pursuit of ambition and brief power, I will be stretched out in the shade, singing.

Agree with most of what you are saying Agro but you are forgetting one small thing : SALARY CAP : If we bottom out with four wins this year pick the extra 2 players in the top 4 come 2010 , 11 ,12 we going to have to let top liners go because of cap pressure.

this year we should forget about it and build a winning culture and look for the rough diamonds in the Draft - you know the Fevs, Thortons, Simpsons and fisher types - there are plenty of them

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If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

for mine, all Pagan has got to do, is strive to continue the gameplan employed thru the pre-season.. ..direct, corridor driven long competitive football.. ..minimal chip kicks and more efficient football,, cos i still doubt all season long our kicking/handball skills will endure a possession heavy type gameplan.. ..heavy on the rotations thru the midfield and also the forward line, and use the experienced veteran duo of kouta/lappin as 'off the bench' specialists.. ..used in such a manner i think the pair of them to have greater impact..

..beyond that, there's not too much more to ask.. ..you can't keep blooding the youngsters merely for the sake of it, and you can't always prevent thrashings with a team of young guns playing attacking footy (which most agree we wanna see).. ..so, if he drops the ultra-defensive gameplans and goes the attacking brand we enjoy we'll risk some thrashings sure.. ..but at least we'll grow and develope playing good footy vs still losing playing shitty footy..

..as for finishing low for another pair of early draft picks, can that idea.. ..lookit the saints, they lost numerous years, got a bunch of very good players.. ..some have already left the team, and they still don't know how to win when it matters.. ..sure they've made the finals the last few yrs, but with how crap several teams have been lately it's not hard for a decent team to make the finals in the comp's current enviroment.. ..a losing culture can take yrs and yrs to shed, and by that time half yer young guns have lost patience and traded away from yer club..

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..if you can't be good, be good at it..

So you would have sacked Parkin after the 1995 season?

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|♥♥♥♥♥♥| http://www.blueseum.org |♥♥♥♥♥♥|

If Denis continues in his current capacity for the rest of the year, that's fine.
He has been virtually an overseer in the pre season to date with Ratten, Crosisca and Libba virtually taking the full pre season. The only time I've seen Pagan involved is during match simulation and the players are virtually practicing the set ups and structures instituted by their zone coaches.

My main criticism of Denis has been his inability to teach the intricacies of the modern game and a reluctance/inability to teach the structures and tactics required. That is where the assistants have been excellent. I was initially critical of Crosiscas appointment but upon talking to him on a couple of occasions, I realise that I underestimated his willingness to stand up for what he believes. He is a creative thinker and put a lot of effort into drills and set ups.

As long as our trading/drafting is out of Denis' hands and he continues to allow the assistants a strong presence with our gameplan and tactics, I'm happy for him to be retained.
If he however gets ahead of himself and starts sacrificing the development of youth in favour of the occasional win, see you later.
We need to be consistent in the implementation of our gamestyle and give players the opportunity to improve. ie its no point having minimal midfield rotations (Stevens) and sitting kids on the bench for 3 quarters. We should have a pre determined development plan in place and not let that be compromised.

Denis is more suited to an ambassadorial/figurehead role now and hopefully he realises it.

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

Spot on Blue Vain,

one of the most sensible posts on this site in a long time

So he is the coach you have when your not having a coach - Can we nick name him Claytons

A lot of money for nothing -he is not exactly media savvy and his people skills are terrible

_________________
If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws