I hate to disagree Molly but I thought that was quite refreshing to hear from Pagan. Some confidence is starting to come through and I like it. We have to get rid of this fear of talking up our players, as it self-perpetuates through the masses, and multiplies if / when we actually show something.

Pagan doesn't naturally give anything away but I thought it was a good read. Our next 5 years are going to be far better than our last 5 and doesn't everyone know it?

He also has the biggest pay packet.

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The measure of a life is a measure of love and respect
So hard to earn, so easily burned
In the fullness of time
A garden to nurture and protect

#DopeThenStash

Beautifully said, Blueman. I'm sure the last five years have hardest in DP's life and whether people like it or not, he didn't deserve to be in the position he found himself.

If he leaves us in the next 12 months, I hope everyone does give him the credit he deserves for re-building a club that was lower than a gopher's turd.

Don't worry Molsey,

I like to hear the positive stuff too! But I reckon everyone on here has short memories if they think they haven't heard exactly this sort of stuff from Denis before. He said it several times last year. Just more cliches.

It is good to hear the positive stuff, but he's been feeding it to us for a couple of seasons now. When he can back it up out on the field then I'll feel happier. Fingers crossed that he can take some positive steps sooner rather than later.

Good to hear some positives and we will undoubtably improve as we should. Our last five years have been as bad as any team ever. At the risk of agreeing with Synbad our finish in 04 flattered us and higher draft picks might have got us Franklin and Deledio. Still, then we then may not have been as bad in 05-6 and may have missed Murphy and Gibbs. And maybe Aisake will become our Buddy Franklin. I think the backline looks pretty good potentially. The forward line will partly depend on how well Kennedy and Edwards and maybe Hartlett come on. Could Raso fill the medium small forward need? Great leap, low hips therefore good balance. Got his injury at a really bad time. We really need an extractor too. Not sure if AB has the class, maybe Blackwell will come on. There are several other sides rising with us. Hawks and Tiges a little ahead but Richo will be gone by the time the Tiges young kids really come on. The Bombers and C'wood are on the way down and are therefore behind us regardless of where they finished on the ladder. The rate of improvement will be the thing.

Great stuff Gerry

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

I thought the article talked up our current crop.

I agree with Synbad that we don't really have a "tall tall" forward line.

It's certainly not the Richo/ Otten/ Stafford tall tall forwardline that was, or the Reiwoldt/ Kosi/ Gherig combo, or the Lynch/ Gardiner/ McDougall combo.

What I liked when DeLuca was in the team was his height created a mismatch and/or stretch opposition defences; pity his ability to mark was limited.

I am all for a forwardline that includes Hartlett at 196 cm and Kennedy at 198cm; throw in Fev at 191cm. Hartlett however must earn his position with some good performances in the Ants. Hartlett did mention this preseason that he wanted to make FB his own...so he may have pigeon holed himself. It's up to the MC to nurture the potential of this squad and create well gelled team god enough to challenge for the 17th Flag.

I like the idea of also trying Hampson 201 cm in the forwardline changing with Ackland 196 cm too!

Despite being a great mark, Fisher plays more like a HF / wingman up the ground, and is hardly in the dangerous spot.

Lance and Kouta are there to add experience in the meantime, but the way I see it, Kouta will be gone end 2007, and Lance, well I wont be surprised if his career comes to a close end 2008....so 2007 is the year we blood the Hartletts/ Edwards/ Hampsons (and next year Aisake 202cm).

So what's wrong with the crumbers we've got on our list?

Betts, Blackwell, Lappin, Murphy...looks OK to me. Lappin will retire before the 17th flag (he's my #1 choice), Murphy will only rest in the middle (resting only), Blackwell has shown good signs in the forwardline, and Betts is a 19 yo forward pocket with potential. Maybe we need a better specialist crumber than what we have?

Is DP questioning Betts' future/ ability/ potential as that crumbing forward? I know I have, but geez he was good last Saturday...but we still need more goals from him (approx 40).

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

Tommi,

I am not sure whether the new young coach commences during a season season or whether he takes the reins of the club at the start of a new season.

I am also not entirely sure on whether Denis departs mid season or at the end of a season.

However I have always thought that the old coach leaves in a controversial fashion - although I dont think that the level of controversy is the issue here as much as his departure.

I have also always believed that Carlton does very very well in the first full season of the new young coach.

As a matter of fact I do believe that we may well win a flag in the first year of this new man's contract.

I did experience a very vivid dream on this in 2001 where Carlton won a particularly glorious 17th flag..

These are not ordinary dreams - they are dreams which are supercharged and in 3D on an Imax screen - rich with feeling, colour and emotion. Far more so than regular experiences.

When dreams have a special intensity like that - they are not ours, but they are given to us by others.

I believe that this vision was a gift from footballing people from the Carlton of old.

These are people, players and supporters, who have now passed over to the other side.

But despite this barrier, these folk exist very happily in another dimension across which communication is difficult, but they still hold a keen interest in our club and truly love Carlton, especially during this very difficult period.

Seeing a premiership actually mighnt mean that we actually win the 17th flag. It may actually mean that we say, just do very well in the finals that year, but, yes it could also mean that we snare a 17th flag. These things are indicative but not definate...

However, I did see a new young coach wearing spectacles as he walked down to the ground and I do recall that Brett Ratten wears glasses.

This new man is regarded by everyone in the football world as a fairly underwhelming coaching choice for Carlton - and while he is respected, no one really rates him all that much.

Poeple wish us well and are pretty much content to see a Carlton in what they see as a team building year after a long stay at the bottom of the ladder.

But when everything clicks into place for us - the opinion of people changes to a view which is angry and indignant that we came good and maybe pinched a flag well before what they would have considered was a reasonable time to do this.

Of course all Carlton people both in this world and also the next are all deleriously happy with the way things turn out..

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My Blue Heaven

Blueman you got me. I must have been trippin' man, but I saw it too!

Then your post finished and I knew you had me on a trip...a bloody good one at that...I'm in!

I believe.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

Dont you know bondi that the more that people believe in some thing like this and the more fervently that they believe - then such a thing will edge closer towards becoming a reality.

To move the large rock - first you have to believe that you can move it.

And if many many minds all believe that the rock can indeed be moved - then moving what seemed impossible to budge soon becomes easier.

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My Blue Heaven

Give Denis nothing as he turned our club into an on-field rabble over the last 4 years. He's held us right back and be glad to see the back of him. His best developmental work in the last 5 years is to win spoons and thus get decent picks.

Anyway, I'll leave that one there. Things have started well so let's hope the pressure and intensity shown in the first 2 NAB Cup games continues into the season proper. Liked what I saw last week.

What an imbecilic statement...

For starters, our team was a rabble when Brittain went - a team of no depth, no youth policy in sight... we'd spent so many years believing *and i did too!* that you didn't need to finish down the bottom and refuel with top draft picks to survive... just clever recruiting and trading... well, our recruitment dept. pre-Pagan went through the worst stretch of choosing duds I've heard of, and suddenly the older players who were barely keeping the team together as it was retired... leaving us with a few older players left and a lot of young duds.

This was what Pagan was left with, and I'll be the first to admit that his choice of retreads and over-the-hill players to recruit was pretty abysmal - but remember two things... at the time, we had no draft picks and secondly - all he was trying to do was to put a competitive team out on the park...

...which he didn't, but who could blame him with the train wreck team he was left with - and mind you, this is the team I love I'm talking about! I don't see how he could have done things any differently, or how he was 'holding us back'...

And after Black Friday he said *and I remember this, and this why I always bring it up!* that it will be 5 years before we are a force again... and that until then things went looking to crash hot...

That was in 2002...

What year is this?!

Factors out of Pagans control ensured that we were bottom of the ladder and broke as a club - and also with those massive draft penalties.

I dont blame Denis for the playing list that he inherited, or the financial state of the club - or the draft penalties. This was lumped on Denis whether he liked it or not - he truly had the footballing job from hell when he took us on in 2002.

I dont think we would have easily found another coach with the experience and background to initiate the rebuilding process in 2002.

We were destined for a stay at the bottom irrespective of who coached our club.

At least Pagan had the experience and desire to embark on the hardest job in football - at the worst time in the history of Carlton.

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My Blue Heaven

Hey Blueman...............

thanks for letting me in brother.............it's all
very exciting..........!


kindest regards tommi




















oh...........and i believe alright............................i believe.......!

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that'siti'mnotchangingthistagain......!

We need to generate as much positive energy as we can.

You do this by being positive.

This gets hard to do when you start losing games though.

However if we lose large numbers of games this year - then Id say that it's a fair chance that Denis will get the sack.

Now, such an event would end up becoming a positive - even though it is looks to be a bit of a big negative at the time.

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My Blue Heaven

Blueman wrote:







Navy blue dreams all the way....Choo Choo!

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Circumstance has no value. It is how one relates to a situation that has value. All true meaning resides in the personal relationship to a phenomenon, what it means to you.