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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 2:48 am 
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Bruce Doull
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We might be sensitive new age guys but we arent enjoying it...it doesnt suit this club....were not being ourselves...being weak and having a bet each way just doesnt work for us...

And yes Heady... new age coaches thinkers and infrustructure will help... :wink:


But the swagger stays!!!! :P


Can someone find the remote ...???

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 3:40 am 
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Vale 1953-2020
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Modern, sensitive, intelligent doesn't preclude being tough: Roos, Woosher, Eade, Craig.

Theory X management is so yesterday.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 6:13 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2005 9:26 pm
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Location: Parliament House, Canberra
Ideally what you want is the "old" Carlton with its swagger, with its arrogance, "we are the old dark navy Blues. We're the team that everyone loves to hate". Why were we hated? Because we were successful. Tall poppy syndrome demanded that we get cut down.

What we want is the Carlton culture of success, of breeding champions of DEVELOPING champions. To do this doesn't necessarily require Carlton people. It does, however, require that the coach be sensitive and understanding of modern player psyches and utilising the players' ability to their utmost.

Where Fraser is absolutely correct is when he says this:

Quote:
"Carlton might not have the cattle, but what improvements have we seen in that cattle, the cattle the club does have? Bugger all," he said.

"Why would Kernahan and Gleeson come up with the conclusion they did? Because they know what's going on, they know what the players are thinking and feeling and how dispirited and soulless the joint is. They didn't come up with the conclusion they did lightly.

"The players are broken. Every ounce of flair has been beaten out of them. They (Kernahan and Gleeson) wouldn't have come out with the conclusion they did if they thought he (Pagan) could develop the list.


It's the lack of improvement. Although our players are not the best, they are not the worst, at times, they've shown themselves to be quite reasonable. It's the lack of development and getting the most out of them that is the problem.

Denis is not out of the woods yet. If there's a board challenge and enough people get on the bandwagon, he could still be gone before next season. IMO Brown's interview is partly to inform the mostly ignorant public who don't frequent the Internet Boards that it's not just having a bad list, which is Pagan's excuse every single bloody week. Most of the CFC supporters probably have little idea about footy and blindly take what the Club says as gospel and that sacking coaches only happens to Richmond.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 7:19 am 
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Craig Bradley

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The fact is Pagan stays for now.whilst the article is interesting its semi useless.Sacking Elshaugh is a start because he was a Pagan puppet.The Blues need to bring in coaches who know about the modern game and are willing to challenge Pagan not agree with everything he says. And why does it have to be Carlton people.If Ratten is available then he should be pursued on his football background and current knowledge.And if he cant work with Pagan then he is just as bad as DP.

Pagan is staying guys Simple as that .For now the structure around him will change and the Club have got to get the mix right and strong people who stick by their views need to be around Denis.
Ultimately the coaching staff will be judged by the team's onfield peformance in 2007 and the improvement.If it doesnt work in 2007 then DP will be out.2 years of a contract remaining is too long.

One year isnt and lets face it I would rather finish down the bottom again than 10th or whatever.Denis may change.this hasnt happened to him before.DP is a survivor.He knows to survive beyond 2007 he must change his coaching style and the way he relates to young players.If he doesnt he is gone at the end of 2007.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 7:37 am 
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Stephen Kernahan

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keogh wrote:
.Denis may change.this hasnt happened to him before.DP is a survivor.He knows to survive beyond 2007 he must change his coaching style and the way he relates to young players.If he doesnt he is gone at the end of 2007.


Pagan will change?

Fevola met with Pagan this week and Fevola has now publicly stated we'll be getting a ruckman in the PSD.
Who's available? Gardiner, Spider and Keating.
All broken down has beens.

Change?
Not likely. Only the desperate wil come to Calton.
Do you think the players from other clubs are unaware of Pagans methods?

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 7:37 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Location: Heartbroken
Jars I hear ya re: cronyism and the Elliott Era putting us where we are today.

BUT

Maybe, just maybe, we can use that same cronyism for good this time. It's pretty clear in that article that the Dog is hurting as much as we are right now. He's obviously not the only one. Williams, Sos, Bradley and others also appear to be hurting. They want the club back that made them who they are. They want the club back that made them household names.

The Carlton we see before us today is definitely not that club.

Maybe, just maybe, two years of these guys backing up Mitch, continuing our youth development, spinning POSITIVE media stories, getting swinging members/sponsors back on board might be just what we need.

Then, once the ship has been righted, we can look towards a more progressive football club.

Something needs to happen. The status quo as it is today will kill this club.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 7:42 am 
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Wayne Johnston

Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2006 8:59 am
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...


Last edited by chubbyruss on Tue Jan 16, 2007 8:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 7:45 am 
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Bruce Doull
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chubbyruss wrote:
What Fraser has said is absolutely spot on. You can tell from the players body language that they feel like s#%& playing under DP.

Ask why Ratten, A. McKay, D. McKay & Bradley, SOS, Williams etc have left & I 'll bet it is because of DP.


And I'll bet double that you're wrong.

As much as I love the Dog, what he was doing was effectively holding the Club to ransom, and I can't agree with it, even if his motives were for the right reasons.

Either way, it's done now, so let's build a bridge...

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 7:48 am 
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Bruce Doull
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Kaptain Kouta wrote:
chubbyruss wrote:
What Fraser has said is absolutely spot on. You can tell from the players body language that they feel like s#%& playing under DP.

Ask why Ratten, A. McKay, D. McKay & Bradley, SOS, Williams etc have left & I 'll bet it is because of DP.


And I'll bet double that you're wrong.

As much as I love the Dog, what he was doing was effectively holding the Club to ransom, and I can't agree with it, even if his motives were for the right reasons.

Either way, it's done now, so let's build a bridge...


No he wasnt holding the club to ransom...
He was doing nothing that the AFL didnt do.. with their strings...Fitzy and Watts

Or Sos wasnt going to do with his strings (Allen)

And noone will do anything for this club without strings while this board is in place because noone has faith in them...

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 7:50 am 
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Bruce Doull
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Or indeed the strings they put on Denis to stay on the job...

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 7:51 am 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2005 1:23 am
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Browny loves the club as much as the rest of us and is speaking passionatley about where we are right now and where he wants us to get....there is nothing wrong with that...at least he is willing to to draw the line in the sand and make a stance....many people on this site have complained that nobody comes forward in our hour of need...but yet Brown does and some people want to criticise....

For me Brown is the man...he told the Afl to go forth and multiply over those years ago about the salary cap...he was tough as nails as a player and just thru this article you can see how devastated he is to see where our club is right now....

Its time for a challenge and get rid of this board and re invent this great club again...

So for me I am 100% behind Browny at least he is not hiding....

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 7:53 am 
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Bruce Doull
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Look, were certainly missing "something" arent we....???

who can say that they have never thought " geeeeeeeeez there is something wrong with my club!!... something really doesnt feel right..."???

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 7:55 am 
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Harry Vallence

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Kaptain Kouta wrote:
chubbyruss wrote:
What Fraser has said is absolutely spot on. You can tell from the players body language that they feel like s#%& playing under DP.

Ask why Ratten, A. McKay, D. McKay & Bradley, SOS, Williams etc have left & I 'll bet it is because of DP.


And I'll bet double that you're wrong.

As much as I love the Dog, what he was doing was effectively holding the Club to ransom, and I can't agree with it, even if his motives were for the right reasons.

Either way, it's done now, so let's build a bridge...


He is not holding the club to ransom as he doesnt care if it aint mitchell...he just knows it aint pagan that should be coaching us....and the board is a joke...

So I might just hold off on building that Bridge because it aint over to its over....and the FAT LADY is still a sleep....

GO Get em DOG!!!!!

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 7:58 am 
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Bruce Doull
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Synbad wrote:
And noone will do anything for this club without strings while this board is in place because noone has faith in them...


Fair point, Synners.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 8:07 am 
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Harry Vallence
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Location: Smorgyland Village North Carlton
Browny actually has balls unlike most of the "what can I leech off the club for me or my ego".
Would be a dream to remove the AFL puppets and the coach of the 90's.
You get one chance with some good kids coming onto the list, let's not create the next batch of Livos, Wiggos, Sporn's etc.
I rather Carlton people stuff it up than the current stuff ups at least I'd know they were trying and bleeding not just track watchers.
Release the hound!!


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 8:17 am 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 8:42 pm
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Location: Princess Park
HELP - HOW CAN THE BOARD BE REPLACED? OBVIOUSLY A TICKET NEEDS TO BE ESTABLISHED BUT WHEN CAN IT CHALLENGE THE CURRENT BOARD?

I have been a member for about 10 years, I attend all games played in Melbourne, attend most training sessions and most Bullants games however I haven't taken an interest with board issues because I ASSUMED there are a lot of smart people behind this club, maybe not.

I keep hearing about possible challenges but when can this take place? do we need to wait for the AGM? If so when will this be held? As a member can I attend and throw my 5cents worth in?


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 8:34 am 
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Geoff Southby

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Fraser Brown was always one of my favourite players - and here he is, still tackling those who'd get in Carlton's way head-on and slamming them into the ground.

Great stuff, in my opinion.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 8:50 am 
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Wayne Johnston
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We are a rabble. I am for the first time ashamed at what my club has become. We are a joke.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 8:50 am 
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Robert Walls
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i've no problems with what Fraser has to say, or his passion for the club, but I do think they made some poor decisions in their attempted coaching coup.

They certainly needed to get the numbers on side and didn't. They needed to have a legitimate alternative option - whether it be a coach (with a profile to appease the average supporter - and that's not Barry Mitchell) or a process to enslist a new coach after the coup, and they didn't.

It was a frail coup attempt albeit with some concerns signed off. But really, it needed someone stronger than Gleeson driving it and better planning to pull it off.

Many would agree that that is a great shame, others not.

Now that Fraser has gone public with his thoughts, in my eyes his standing can only be diminished IF he does not form a legitimate alternative to the current board. Otherwise, he has been a catalyst for significant pain and squeezing a very public boil.

Now it is time to put his mind where his money (and others) is.

Fund an EGM and make real change.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 8:50 am 
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Bruce Doull
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Synbad wrote:
Brown isnt a coackhead because he is willing to invest 600k of his own hard earnt cash and there are others willing to invest theirs to make changes.
He is like the rest of us.. frustrated!!!

In my opinion he is totally right...

the club has lost its soul..

The players arent happy under Denis.

the board has no clue....

Gleeson and Sticks are the only 2 people on it that know anything about footy.

The wheels have to be set in motion or we will have 2 more years of nothingness.


Now if Brown was bagging the club making recommendations without putting his money up..(considering how much he has)... then he would be a flower...

Jarusa... you cant bag a bloke who is willing to put 600k of his own money where his mouth is..!!!... dunno where how you keep saying that ....



Synbad not that you care what I think, but this is the first time that I agree with you. I wouldn't be surprised if Sticks and Gleeson jump onto a new ticket involving Brown and Co.

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