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PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 9:36 am 
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Bruce Doull
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That's all fair; I thought you were suggesting that the players hadn't shown themselves to be on-message with the game plan, but it clearly settled into something promising late last year. Not sure what happened the other night aside from the confidence dropping way too easily after some tactical ideas failed.

Anyway, to those complaining about our lack of running power and then making like for like changes, I'd suggest you look at dropping one of our 8 talls for a running type. The obvious choice is White.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 11:12 am 
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John Nicholls
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jimmae wrote:
That's all fair; I thought you were suggesting that the players hadn't shown themselves to be on-message with the game plan, but it clearly settled into something promising late last year. Not sure what happened the other night aside from the confidence dropping way too easily after some tactical ideas failed.

Anyway, to those complaining about our lack of running power and then making like for like changes, I'd suggest you look at dropping one of our 8 talls for a running type. The obvious choice is White.



White will not get dropped. MM loves him.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 11:16 am 
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Bruce Doull
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Then watch as another tall gets dropped, or as we look slow of foot again. At the bare minimum, if Walker is fit to play, I expect White to make way for him, unless we didn't like Jones' performance enough and White takes his role.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 11:34 am 
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Rod Ashman

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jimmae wrote:
Then watch as another tall gets dropped, or as we look slow of foot again. At the bare minimum, if Walker is fit to play, I expect White to make way for him, unless we didn't like Jones' performance enough and White takes his role.


I'd be amazed if Walks was 1. Fit to play and 2. Even if fit, rushed backed in after having bugger all lead up footy.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 12:12 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Blues Clues wrote:
jimmae wrote:
Then watch as another tall gets dropped, or as we look slow of foot again. At the bare minimum, if Walker is fit to play, I expect White to make way for him, unless we didn't like Jones' performance enough and White takes his role.


I'd be amazed if Walks was 1. Fit to play and 2. Even if fit, rushed backed in after having bugger all lead up footy.

Walker is probably the fittest player at the club, and do you think he'd be problematic as a sub?

It's simply a question as to the condition of his knee over the next few days (he's already resumed full training I believe), and the game is roughly aligned with the return time estimated.

You'll also likely catch Sheehan in the VFL practice game as well.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 12:12 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni

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baz_baz wrote:
Hibbo wrote:
I haven't been able to attend a game for neatly 12mths, question to those that do...

Is it our mids that can't hit our Fwds on a lead or our Fwds don't lead, no structure or blocks allowing genuine leads, obviously tv doesn't show up the ground. So frustrating how every other team hits their Fwds lace out on leads throughout games yet we continually bomb it. We are the team that should be hitting leads because our Fwds strengths is there speed.


Disposal is an issue. Players like Gibbs, Yarran, Bell, Simpson, Touhy are inconsistent with disposal.

Work rate of the forwards is also an issues.

Blocking and covering for forwards is a further issue. Good sides kick forward to advantage and cover and block forwards so they get first chop at it. Not happening at present.

Forward pressure is also lacking


...and I remember hearing that they were working on blocking and helping each other over the preseason.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 12:16 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni

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chelodina wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
blueboy23 wrote:
We can't play,
Carrazzo, Bell, Curnow and Cripps all in the same team..
Cripps and Carrazzo for me, the other two offer no skill at all..
Need some zip, Buckley, Tutt and Boekhorst offer that..
Will Walker come straight in??
Would like too see Yarran play forward, Docherty, Buckley and Simpson take care coming out of the backline..
We have about 15 quality players then their is a massive hole..
Anyway for me this week,
Simpson Jamison Tuohy
Buckley Rowe Docherty
Carrazzo Cripps Gibbs
Everitt Henderson Yarran
Menzel Jones Casboult
Wood Murphy Judd
I/C; White Boekhorst Tutt or Walker if fit
Sub; Smith
No chance Bell and Curnow will be dropped but they lack skill and pace..
Casboult at least offers a presence in the forward line...
Need class around the goals and Menzel and Yarran will fit that bill..
Just my silly opinion


Bell isn't slow.
.

Marred bell isn't slow, his ordinary football skills just make him look that way


... And he was one I of our best on Thursday....and one of the few still motoring in the last.

I didn't see his foot skills being the issue on Thursday but I didnt like him kicking the ball to an empty forward line with 2 defenders. Should he have doubled back and look for an option side ways or backwards? Sadly I was looking for options and from my vantage I couldn't see any safe options.
There's deeper problems than Bell Imo. Give him something to kick from.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 12:18 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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bondiblue wrote:
baz_baz wrote:
Hibbo wrote:
I haven't been able to attend a game for neatly 12mths, question to those that do...

Is it our mids that can't hit our Fwds on a lead or our Fwds don't lead, no structure or blocks allowing genuine leads, obviously tv doesn't show up the ground. So frustrating how every other team hits their Fwds lace out on leads throughout games yet we continually bomb it. We are the team that should be hitting leads because our Fwds strengths is there speed.


Disposal is an issue. Players like Gibbs, Yarran, Bell, Simpson, Touhy are inconsistent with disposal.

Work rate of the forwards is also an issues.

Blocking and covering for forwards is a further issue. Good sides kick forward to advantage and cover and block forwards so they get first chop at it. Not happening at present.

Forward pressure is also lacking


...and I remember hearing that they were working on blocking and helping each other over the preseason.


Didn't see it Thursday night. Team defence? Didn't see that either.

I must say though. Richmond took off goal side of the ball seeming to know that they would gain possession and they were out. Very slick handball. Carlton fumbled a bit. Looking for a big upside in those departments this week

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 12:20 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni

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redback wrote:
baz_baz wrote:
redback wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
It's not just about personnel. The past 2 years we've been 17th and 18th for uncontested possessions. i.e. our game style doesn't promote retaining possession. We play the boundary, kick down the line and continually give the opposition an opportunity to win the ball back.
Compare that to the successful teams who do everything within their power to retain possession. How often do you see our players play on? We continually go back, kick over the mark and rely on contested possession to win the ball. That's 90's football.
Watch the successful teams play. They make every effort to avoid kicking over the mark so they can keep the ball low to move it quicker through the air. Our ball movement after quarter time on Thursday was snail like. You can have Carl Lewis and Usian Bolt in your team but if they don't play in an offensive manner, it means jack shit.

I chuckle when I hear the coaches say the players aren't creating and taking a risk. Yet when the risk doesn't work, Mick is the first to admonish them and kick them up the arse. :lol:
You can't have it both ways. The coaches can't ask the players to be creative and take risks and then admonish them when the risk doesnt work.
That creates confusion and when the pressure is applied, the players will always revert to "safe" football. That's where we are. When the pressure is applied, no one wants to be the one to play on, to leave his man and give a running option. No one wants to stick his head up.



:clap:


Two points

Gibbs played on quickly, squared the ball up into the corridor. Result turn over and goal against.

Simpson 3 minutes later exactly the same thing.

My point is its as much about play on selection as it is about just playing on.

That requires players making the positions to give safer options. Just isn't happening at the moment.



and multiple times we had no one in our front half to kick to so we kicked blindly or to team mates who were outnumbered and it ended with their loose man and an easy rebound set up and score
you need to keep your structures and play for each other as a team
mistakes happen and you get scored against that's part of the game but if your not allowed to take the risk and win the game you will surely lose
we are to defensive and there is no one to spread because we are to focused on tagging (defensive mind set) or caught behind the ball with no focal points and link men


That's the point red back. No structures, and without them we expect the likes of Bell who are limited albeit valuable to work miracles from 90 metres from goal.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 12:32 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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bondiblue wrote:
redback wrote:
baz_baz wrote:
redback wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
It's not just about personnel. The past 2 years we've been 17th and 18th for uncontested possessions. i.e. our game style doesn't promote retaining possession. We play the boundary, kick down the line and continually give the opposition an opportunity to win the ball back.
Compare that to the successful teams who do everything within their power to retain possession. How often do you see our players play on? We continually go back, kick over the mark and rely on contested possession to win the ball. That's 90's football.
Watch the successful teams play. They make every effort to avoid kicking over the mark so they can keep the ball low to move it quicker through the air. Our ball movement after quarter time on Thursday was snail like. You can have Carl Lewis and Usian Bolt in your team but if they don't play in an offensive manner, it means jack shit.

I chuckle when I hear the coaches say the players aren't creating and taking a risk. Yet when the risk doesn't work, Mick is the first to admonish them and kick them up the arse. :lol:
You can't have it both ways. The coaches can't ask the players to be creative and take risks and then admonish them when the risk doesnt work.
That creates confusion and when the pressure is applied, the players will always revert to "safe" football. That's where we are. When the pressure is applied, no one wants to be the one to play on, to leave his man and give a running option. No one wants to stick his head up.



:clap:


Two points

Gibbs played on quickly, squared the ball up into the corridor. Result turn over and goal against.

Simpson 3 minutes later exactly the same thing.

My point is its as much about play on selection as it is about just playing on.

That requires players making the positions to give safer options. Just isn't happening at the moment.



and multiple times we had no one in our front half to kick to so we kicked blindly or to team mates who were outnumbered and it ended with their loose man and an easy rebound set up and score
you need to keep your structures and play for each other as a team
mistakes happen and you get scored against that's part of the game but if your not allowed to take the risk and win the game you will surely lose
we are to defensive and there is no one to spread because we are to focused on tagging (defensive mind set) or caught behind the ball with no focal points and link men


That's the point red back. No structures, and without them we expect the likes of Bell who are limited albeit valuable to work miracles from 90 metres from goal.



bondi the structures and game plan come down to one person and not the players

for two years we have blamed personnel and their ability and heart but when you don't believe in the direction you are heading in you cannot give 100%
you might give it a go at the start but the reality slowly seeps in and you become disheartened
instead of realising the importance of rectifying the game plan and our lack of success our mighty leader seems to think a more pressing agenda is how his future employment supersede the progress of our team, which in turn if he succeeds in rectifying the situation will lead to a more favourable position in itself


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 12:44 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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Our team will not be settle for at least 6 weeks into the season. We just have to bear with it, no credible rucks and quite a few of our skilled runners down.
It's obvious we'll struggle. There 's nothing Mick can do about that. The drafting over the last 5 or 6 years has let us down tremendously it's so painfully obvious and our poor development has not helped.
It's very obvious how far back we are .
We need a lot of luck with injuries and longer term some recent draftees to show some glimes.
Be patient , the Baggers will come good.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 1:04 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Whyley will be good when he comes in. But carrazzo bell vurnow Cripps and him can't all be in the same side.
Holman and Graham... Hmmmmmmm

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 1:08 pm 
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Robert Walls

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IN: Boekhurst, Buckley
OUT: Thomas, Jacksch

White - Jamo - Touhy
Yarran - Rowe - Docherty
Murphy - Carrazzo - Gibbs
Menzel - Henderson - Bell
Buckley - Jones - Judd

Wood - Cripps - Curnow

Boekhurst - Simmo - Everitt
sub: Smith

Just trying to get a bit more run in the side. But I generally agree that Bell, Carrazzo, Cripps and Curnow are all a bit one-paced to be in the same side. They all offer different strengths, but it makes us a little stodgy through the middle.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 1:13 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Not sure why we're equating Bell and Curnow to the rest of those names unless it's a question of agility. I see it a lot?

Bell sits in his own role on HF, and probably shares it with White, Everitt, Judd and Docherty; Curnow is a tagger who links play and makes a lot of contests; Carrazzo is someone who can accumulate the football while shutting down an opponent at the stoppage. Cripps and Whiley are the inside ball winners.

The only issue in terms of playing all of them is our set up at the stoppages (i.e. how we use Carrazzo, Whiley and Cripps to open up the play for the more outside players and better users of the football), and if Carrazzo still has enough zip in the legs. Carrazzo seemed fine late last year, but was off the pace on Thursday; he wasn't alone there.

Long term you'll see Carrazzo make way and maybe Bell will add contested ball work to his capabilites. I think Gowers will come on quickly and will probably be in the selection mix for 2016.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 1:40 pm 
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Harry Vallence

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Bondi, you make me laugh... No issue with Bells skills on Thursday night...... Gee whiz!!
You can be slow like, Mitchell, Watson or Selwood, but those boys have skill, Bell and Curnow don't., not the only ones..
We will finish outside the 8 which hurts very much, but time for players like Tutt, Boekhorst, Buckley, Whiley, Dick and Rainbow to be getting games just like Bell and Curnow were getting, no chance of us winning games/finals with ordinary footballers.. Bell and Curnow aren't the only average players..
I believe Cripps, Carrazzo and Whiley can play well together, but that's all from the slow boys..
Cripps as the give it to the runners, Carrazzo as the shut down and Whiley as the hard nut..
We have spoken about our poor draft choices, we need to move forward and see who is worth keeping and who is worth moving on.. It's a long year ahead..
With Jaksch out, Casboult needs to come in..
Wood and Warnock as our ruck choices whilst Kreuzer gets back, yep move on.....
Reckon we have 15 good players just need to find the next 5 or so to make us better,
Just my silly opinion


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 1:42 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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At some point this year we're going to see Jimmae cosplay as Shao Khan and organize for the kidnappings of Simon White and David Ellard leading to a pit fight to the death around Visy Park.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 2:02 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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The Rhino wrote:
At some point this year we're going to see Jimmae cosplay as Shao Khan and organize for the kidnappings of Simon White and David Ellard leading to a pit fight to the death around Visy Park.

:lol:

Ellard is gone; this was his last run around to give us cheap depth. Time for a kid to get a go.

White has improved over the last 18 months and I'm happy for him to have another 2 years on the list at this point, but I wouldn't pick him ahead of Jaksch, Walker or Docherty, who are probably taking his best roles in the team right now. I also would err on the side of giving him forward responsibilities ahead of Watson and Casboult.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 2:38 pm 
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jimmae wrote:
The Rhino wrote:
At some point this year we're going to see Jimmae cosplay as Shao Khan and organize for the kidnappings of Simon White and David Ellard leading to a pit fight to the death around Visy Park.

:lol:

Ellard is gone; this was his last run around to give us cheap depth. Time for a kid to get a go.

White has improved over the last 18 months and I'm happy for him to have another 2 years on the list at this point, but I wouldn't pick him ahead of Jaksch, Walker or Docherty, who are probably taking his best roles in the team right now. I also would err on the side of giving him forward responsibilities ahead of Watson and Casboult.


White will be our Crowley

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 2:43 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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I don't mind White.

One of the things we lack in that playing list is a sense of versatility. I think it goes a long way to explain our performance in close games. We don't have players who have the versatility to take a spell in the forward pocket and actually make an impact there, instead requiring them to rotate exclusively through the bench, because they have no impact when they go forward, or lack whats required down back, with a domino impact on those who legitimately require a spell on the bench.

White can play tall, small, run with, forward, back. I don't rate his kicking skills, and I'm not sure if he truly has football smarts. But he's agro, looks like he gives a shit, and does what is asked of him.

In hindsight, the biggest/most glaring issue of list management last year is giving Carrazzo another year.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 2:49 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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White has all the tools to be our Crowley

Endurance, mongrel, sufficient disposal, concentration to keep at the task.

Like him allot

More importantly. So does Mick

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