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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 8:43 pm 
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Harry Vallence

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ATM i'd prefer Carlos to Knockers.

Knockers needs to exibit more aggression.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 9:01 pm 
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John Nicholls

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ThePsychologist wrote:
Molly wrote:
Gee some of the TC match committee have itchy fingers!

We'll miss Hammer's aggression in my opinion. I worry Warnock is too 'nice'. Regardless, we obviously bring him in for Hammer.

I'd be reluctant for other changes. Hendo and Tuohy fill very important roles and we need to give them an extended run. I'm almost gobsmacked at the calls to drop Hendo. Prior to the season I thought that structurally he was our most important player. I now think Jamo is, but I have Hendo next in line. He allows us to structure differently than we otherwise would. He is absolutely vital to this team.


This!!


I think people are only saying henderson out if Waite comes in. What would be henda's important role in the structure if Waite comes in?


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 9:06 pm 
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Ken Hands

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club29 wrote:
Princes Park Whistler wrote:
Molly wrote:
Gee some of the TC match committee have itchy fingers!

We'll miss Hammer's aggression in my opinion. I worry Warnock is too 'nice'. Regardless, we obviously bring him in for Hammer.

I'd be reluctant for other changes. Hendo and Tuohy fill very important roles and we need to give them an extended run. I'm almost gobsmacked at the calls to drop Hendo. Prior to the season I thought that structurally he was our most important player. I now think Jamo is, but I have Hendo next in line. He allows us to structure differently than we otherwise would. He is absolutely vital to this team.
Good post Molly.


On Waite, i`m convinced he must play CHB when you think about opposition CHF`s-Cloke, Brown, Riewoldt, Petrie, Pav and Kennedy. He`s the best suited to match these players. He was playing his best footy there before the knee injury and to me plays best when given an assignment. I think Thornton is having a good year but if it came down to Cloke v Waite or Cloke v Thornton, i know what i`d prefer.


Isnt that robbing peter to pay paul? Surely we stick with the system, our team defense and our ability to put so much heat on the ball that it doesnt come into our defense with much fluency. Thats not saying i dont wish Tbird was 3kg's heavier and 4cm taller but i reckon so far this season we have only been worried by big guys once and that was against the crows and really that was our own fault kicking a million points. In the end our extra run got them anyway.

Waite is a better more reliable forward at this stage. If anything Henda takes t birds role if he is good enough.



BANG!


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 9:43 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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Laguna Legend wrote:
BigKev wrote:
I don't think Waite is an automatic selection and neither is Laidler. Once a player has missed three or more games then IMO he should have to earn his place via the Ants.

Very few exceptions.

I'd only change for injury this week - which means 206 and possibly McLean for Hammer and Ellard.

Oh, and to whoever said that Bower was putting pressure on for a place in the 22 -- not the way he played against the VFL Cats he isn't. He'll come good, but at the moment he's way out of touch.



well geez I'm glad you're not on the match committee


For the record I've disagreed with the MC a few times this year and so far they've been right every time.
I'm wrapped with the job they're doing.

As for Waite though, I'm assuming that he's going to miss >= three matches . Given that and given that the team keeps
winning why would you drop someone who's doing the job for someone who hasn't played for a month? I'm not suggesting he never plays again, just that he should have to show serious form in the magoos. It gives a far better message to the team than dropping someone for a "name" player.

Out of curiousity how many weeks would he have to miss before you'd make him earn his spot?


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 10:13 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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club29 wrote:
ThePsychologist wrote:
Molly wrote:
Gee some of the TC match committee have itchy fingers!

We'll miss Hammer's aggression in my opinion. I worry Warnock is too 'nice'. Regardless, we obviously bring him in for Hammer.

I'd be reluctant for other changes. Hendo and Tuohy fill very important roles and we need to give them an extended run. I'm almost gobsmacked at the calls to drop Hendo. Prior to the season I thought that structurally he was our most important player. I now think Jamo is, but I have Hendo next in line. He allows us to structure differently than we otherwise would. He is absolutely vital to this team.


This!!


I think people are only saying henderson out if Waite comes in. What would be henda's important role in the structure if Waite comes in?


Nah, I don't think so. That's you saying that and a couple of others I think. There's those who prefer Waite forward moreso than down back.

I'm reading Waite at CHB for TBird....or Hendo at CHB for TBird.
I'm reading TBird is ahead of Bower.

I agree TBird has earned his spot, but I just don't think the MC will withold its preference for Hendo's class.
Just a hunch.

It would be a great fairytale story to see TBird in this years premiership team after all he has endured.
If I had to make the hard call, I'd pick Hendo ahead of TBird and Bower.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 10:27 pm 
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formerly King Kenny
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Waite isn't a traditional tall, he is big yes, but very mobile and provides run if played at CHB as an example.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 11:00 pm 
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Rod McGregor

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King Kenny wrote:
Waite isn't a traditional tall, he is big yes, but very mobile and provides run if played at CHB as an example.



Once again i agree. One bloke in hendo will be a good chf and has showed this already in his SHORT career to date. The other bloke has been a gun and wouldv been and alll aus backmen in waiter. To me its a no brainer and should at least be trialed.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 12:33 am 
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Bruce Comben

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Warnock comes in for Hampson. Setanta is the only other option and he is not fit.

If Ellard is out and Waite is ready this swap will work against West Coast given their extra height. Either Waite or Henderson (who played down back a bit against the Swans) will be able to switch back to add extra cover as required. For mine, Waite is an automatic selection when fit. Laidler however, has not earned automatic selection yet and has been out long enough to need a run with the Ants. We don't want to make the same mistake made with Curnow.

If Duigan misses then I think Armfield's form warrants selection ahead of Bower. I'd be incredibly surprised if Touhy was dropped - we are in winning form and he has been doing his part. His development will be helped along by playing for the Blues next week more than it would with the Ants and he has done nothing to warrant losing his spot anyway...

HK

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 1:43 am 
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Ken Hands
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_HK_ wrote:
Warnock comes in for Hampson. Setanta is the only other option and he is not fit.

If Ellard is out and Waite is ready this swap will work against West Coast given their extra height. Either Waite or Henderson (who played down back a bit against the Swans) will be able to switch back to add extra cover as required. For mine, Waite is an automatic selection when fit. Laidler however, has not earned automatic selection yet and has been out long enough to need a run with the Ants. We don't want to make the same mistake made with Curnow.

If Duigan misses then I think Armfield's form warrants selection ahead of Bower. I'd be incredibly surprised if Touhy was dropped - we are in winning form and he has been doing his part. His development will be helped along by playing for the Blues next week more than it would with the Ants and he has done nothing to warrant losing his spot anyway...

HK


I agree that Waite is an automatic selection when fit but we have also seen players benefitting from having a run in the two's before coming back into the side. It would be more to get fitness back up rather than form though.

Why would Duigan miss?


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 8:12 am 
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Stephen Silvagni
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I could see Waite going back for the rest of the season if we really had too, but I think the MC will prefer him forward.

I cant see Hendo going back, too much of an unknown back there and we need to have that back structure set before the finals.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 8:35 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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TruBlueBrad wrote:
I cant see Hendo going back, too much of an unknown back there and we need to have that back structure set before the finals.


Perception is reality. But yes I can see the virtue of a stable structure down back, which I think we have.
There's also a lot to be said in the virtues of building flexibility in the team, so we are not precictable, and when things aren't going as planned we can throw around the team.

After we smash the WCE, we will have a buffer of 2 games ahead of 5th spot with Richmond next in line. I'm sure if continue the 2011 form we will see the MC mixing it up a bit. Ratts said that he wanted to build in flexibility after the weekend.

Back to your point on Hendo as an unknown in the backline. He played as a CHB at the age of 19 for the Lions in the year they beat us in the final (2009). Jonathon Brown was their CHF.

Hendo has also played CHB and even FB last year whilst at Carlton, and this year in the last 2 weeks (he's been in the team) he's played for short stints in the backline. I thought his marking back there was very good. Damn tall prospect for CHB...which is a good thing.

I think it is well known that this kid has talent, and is a good size with plenty of speed...and he was born in the game, so he's not learning the nuances as some internationals would.

Just discussing, and its only my opinion, so we're all right given we are not privy to the inner sanctum of the MC.


Please...just don't jeer or boo our players this weekend. Pass the word around at the game.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 9:49 am 
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formerly cj69

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King Kenny wrote:
Waite isn't a traditional tall, he is big yes, but very mobile and provides run if played at CHB as an example.



I agree with the above.

Waite plays a bit similar to Walker. More a mobile, athletic target. The addition of Henderson and Kruezer has given us the other option of going tall to a target when under pressure. It also creates more of a direct spillage bringing our smalls into the game.

I have said it before Waite could easily play wing and go to CHB or CHF if needed. Given the nature of the sub that gives us great flexibility during a game. An opposition coach that has to match up with Judd, Murphy, Robbo, Simpson, Ellard, Carrots and Curnow now has to find a different match up for Waite. That adds a different dimension to our side and would stretch any opposition. Also, his ability to drop back and help against a Cloke or Dawes would make our developing defence even better.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 9:50 am 
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John Nicholls

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TruBlueBrad wrote:
I could see Waite going back for the rest of the season if we really had too, but I think the MC will prefer him forward.

I cant see Hendo going back, too much of an unknown back there and we need to have that back structure set before the finals.


I see Henda remaining in the team if he:-

- Shows he is a better option than Waite or Walker as a tall forward.
- Plays forward/second ruck. ( would take a shift in MC thinking and some ruck improvement from Henda)
- Somehow grabs CHB and makes it his own.
- MC decide to change Walkers role considerably

I see us beating Geelong Collingwood and Hawthorn by setting up in a way that allows us to put so much pressure on them that they cant play their usual game and allows our game to thrive. A quick zippy forward line will continue to do the damage and our mobile medium sized defense will get the job done with pressure giving them the protection they need.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 10:01 am 
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Rod Ashman
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You can't drop a guy who has one of the coolest theme songs ever:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdbjH7Zf_6k


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 10:07 am 
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Robert Walls
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Enjoying all this premiership talk but I hope the boys are more focused on the West Coast game than we are.

Le Cras, JK, Nic Nat, and maybe Darling may give us a few worries.
Hurn hasn't played well against us recently (Subiaco specialist?) but has the potential to catch us napping on the rebound.
Priddis is a plodder, but an underrated one, and if Kerr plays they're more than capable of snatching a run of stoppages and banging a few goals on in a row (ala Sydney in the first quarter) with Cox in the ruck.

If Ellard misses then it's up to Curnow and the rest of the onballers to lift their grunt-work

A win on Sunday would give us breathing space, but it will need to be earned.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 10:15 am 
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Stephen Silvagni
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club29 wrote:
TruBlueBrad wrote:
I could see Waite going back for the rest of the season if we really had too, but I think the MC will prefer him forward.

I cant see Hendo going back, too much of an unknown back there and we need to have that back structure set before the finals.


I see Henda remaining in the team if he:-

- Shows he is a better option than Waite or Walker as a tall forward.
- Plays forward/second ruck. ( would take a shift in MC thinking and some ruck improvement from Henda)
- Somehow grabs CHB and makes it his own.
- MC decide to change Walkers role considerably

I see us beating Geelong Collingwood and Hawthorn by setting up in a way that allows us to put so much pressure on them that they cant play their usual game and allows our game to thrive. A quick zippy forward line will continue to do the damage and our mobile medium sized defense will get the job done with pressure giving them the protection they need.


Yes we must play to our strengths and force the opposition into the reactive position, so it's a week by week selection assessment of personnel and we shouldn't really pigeon hole anyone into a certain role.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 10:31 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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club29 wrote:
I see Henda remaining in the team if he:-

- Shows he is a better option than Waite or Walker as a tall forward.
- Plays forward/second ruck. ( would take a shift in MC thinking and some ruck improvement from Henda)
- Somehow grabs CHB and makes it his own.
- MC decide to change Walkers role considerably


I like your assessment, and see where you stand.

I assume you would probably add "Injury" to a key tall as another reason for Hendo in the team.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 10:35 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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ThePsychologist wrote:
I have said it before Waite could easily play wing and go to CHB or CHF if needed. Given the nature of the sub that gives us great flexibility during a game. An opposition coach that has to match up with Judd, Murphy, Robbo, Simpson, Ellard, Carrots and Curnow now has to find a different match up for Waite. That adds a different dimension to our side and would stretch any opposition. Also, his ability to drop back and help against a Cloke or Dawes would make our developing defence even better.


I have always been a fan of this scenario Psych. :thumbsup:
Thanks for bringing this up again. I love it. It's a luxury.
I have no doubt its a possibility if all our players are healthy and available for selection...and in form.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 10:51 am 
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John Nicholls

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bondiblue wrote:
club29 wrote:
I see Henda remaining in the team if he:-

- Shows he is a better option than Waite or Walker as a tall forward.
- Plays forward/second ruck. ( would take a shift in MC thinking and some ruck improvement from Henda)
- Somehow grabs CHB and makes it his own.
- MC decide to change Walkers role considerably


I like your assessment, and see where you stand.

I assume you would probably add "Injury" to a key tall as another reason for Hendo in the team.


Of course.

I wish i had written that assessment days ago.

Nice posting Bondi. Keep up the good work.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 11:04 am 
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Rod Ashman
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I think we need to acknowledge a couple of things to get a proper picture of this upcoming game (and even beyond),

- Ratts has said at least twice publicly that Warnock will be selected for this weeks game. No point juggling between him and Setanta because 206 is coming in!
- It is clear that the ideal forward set-up for our team would include both Hendo and Waite in both KP posts in attack. Not sending one of these two back to defence for any reason, or the notion that they are fighting for the same spot, they are the preferred forward KP combination

So now that is out the way, carry on... :smoking:

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