North can become our dumping ground.
Rehydration machines can be dropped off there too.

Sydney list manager Kinnear Beatson gave us some insight to how List Mangers are thinking about improving picks and trade targets



https://www.sen.com.au/news/2023/08/17/sydney-list-manager-on-grundy-interest-ben-mckay-dylan-stephens-and-more/

Beatson was open open looking at Grundy, Ben McKay etc, nothing is off the table for List Mangers.

Over the next month, every possibility will be looked at and see what may transpire before committing to anything before October's FA and Trade period.

So don't be shocked if some of your faves, or players still in contract are traded, paid out, delisted, demoted or promoted.

We MUST discard 2 rookies to be back on par with rookie numbers; that's just the start.
We must make a minimum 3 spots on the Primary list open for a minimum 3 new players, who come from the Draft or from The Rookie List.

If our injury condemned players continue to stand up and build on form, they will play Finals and will be difficult to let go, but hey, their trade value may be too good to refuse.

We only have one good pick in the Draft. We need to improve our 2nd pick, and if possible our 3rd.

We are a Destination Club with no questions on the great culture built amongst the group and club. Anything can happen.

_________________
Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

After watching the first half of the reserves, I am convinced LOB is taking a waste on the list.

He's not in form, he's not getting a touch, he is past development and he has not interest in defending or tackling.

My gut feeling is he will be a cheap payout (assuming we can afford it), instead of losing a developing kid.

If you're not convinced, go and have a look at the reserves game vs GCS. He's not an AFL player

_________________
Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

Don’t need to pay him out if we can get him a contract with a cellar dweller


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

_________________

any payout still counts against the cap, yeah?

better off just leaving him where he is, if no one wants him - his career is over when this contract expires.

O’Brien is a previously delisted player, which gives him ‘free agent for life’ status.

He might decide to leave and try his luck in the SSP.

_________________
"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter" - Winston Churchill.

Why not having someone with more potential taking his spot if we can afford the $2-300K?

Just make it simple for him. Send him to a team or competition he may thrive in.

Thanks for your services.

_________________
Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

While I don't 100% disagree with what Cazz is saying I also don't 100% agree and I don't agree that all these players have gone past him either.

If you look at our game against Demons Rnd 22 last year, it was a finals like game, more so than 2 weeks ago IMO.
LOBs stats Rnd 22 2022 were:
Disposals: 12
Marks: 2
Tackles: 4
Meters gained: 173m

Hollands stats Rnd 22 2023 were:
Disposals: 10
Marks: 1
Tackles: 4
Meters gained: 170m

I also get that Hollands has potential on his side given it's his first year, however if you look at both players first year stats, they are very similar.
LOB was in a team getting flogged week in week out with little to no player development and Hollands has had the luxury of almost the opposite.

First year stats:
Hollands v LOB
0.1 Goals 0.1
14.8 Disposals 13.9
3.2 Marks 4.4
2.5 Tackles 1.4
1.3 Clearances 0.8
9 Kicks 9.3
5.8 Handballs 4.6

So I get why LOB has lost interest when the club brings in 3 new wings, 2 of which are not much better if at all and he can't get a call up.
Personally, I still think it was poor recruiting to get so many wings and slow ones at that, especially when we lack speed in the middle.
I hope he does go to a new club and gets another crack, my only concern is who Bondi will hate on now at the club.

there's a few crucial aspect those numbers don't elude to, which is why the game isn't played on paper.

hollands runs. he's either first or second in total km's run any given game
pressure acts & 1%'ers

hollands does these regularly and without flinching. while LOB just flinches at contact and putting his head over it.

throw in the fact Ollie is in his first year and probably 5-7 kgs under his ultimate playing weight, and the future is very bright. maybe even AA or a grand final wining winger.

depsite LOB's age, his career is on the tailend.

Piss off Sidey

You're sitting on the fence saying nothing of substance.
Like alot of fringe dwellers they have their fans.
You dont and do agree 100%. Which one.

Like those suggesting Dow is the incumbent.
You have to realise if and why these type of players are depth or not.
Then evaluate their future with the club coz there is limited seats on this team bus.

I dont hate any Carlton player. I love them all.
Their shortfalls frustrate me, because I'm thinking Finals for the first time in 10 years, and I'm thinking List Management and delistings because we have 2 too many already on our list.
Nothing to do with hate.

LOB is not a Finals player. Hollands may not be this year either for different reasons. I think Hollands will make the grade, and LOB wont.
Now if you had to choose between LOB and Hollands on the list who would you select and why?
LOB has completed 7 preseasons. Tell me what his upside is. Nothing to do with hate.

I just choose not to live in la la land. LOB's delisting is not something that has popped into my head. Believe me, its on the table.
The big question is upside, and who is worth persevering with. Dow's out because we cant guarantee a spot in the midfield group next year if every one is fit. Same with this years Finals. LOB has a contract worth fk all in cost. And you think LOB is worthy of a spot as a midfielder? Sorry Ive got to

Your numbers don't show guts, body contact, nullifying an opponent, 1 %ers, nor do you consider where they REALLY are in the pecking order. We got 3 wings in righly or wrongly given Lucas Camporeale joins us next year too. What is really obvious to me, and not you, is that the club's faith in LOB making it is zero....but not for you, because you LOVE LOB.

Its not about love and hate. Its about Premierships and list spots at Carlton, the Destination Club, are a premium. Get over it.

_________________
Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

One thing I have leanred this year is not to right off players so quickly. I wouldn't have given anything for Fogarty Cuningham or Fisher 10 weeks ago.

LOB has another year to go and with some maturity, a new culture and maybe even a change of position who knows.

This is my take, too. Right now, LOB is right at the bottom of our depth chart and I wouldn't have him in our first barring an injury catastrophe in the coming weeks. And I say that as someone who has steadfastly defended the kid from the many slings and arrows over the years. However, like you, I remember thinking Fog and Fish were completely useless only a couple of months ago, and that Dow was too deficient in several/most key areas to be considered a first-teamer. So that's why I was intrigued to hear LOB was playing midfield minutes in the twos, because I now have faith in the club's ability to reinvent a player and/or unlock his potential. Too late for LOB this year, but it sounded like there was a plan for 2024.

I can also understand Sidey being a bit annoyed with Bondi, who has been incessantly bagging LOB in recent days. No one is saying he should be in the team at the moment, so it comes across as axe grinding. But we all need a whipping boy... Sidey's given Acres his fair share.

The problem is though, if he's playing midfield now, he's behind an even longer queue to get in the team. We're struggling to fit Dow and Kennedy in, I just can't see O'Brien overtaking them, let alone Cripps, Walsh, Cerra, Hewett, Doc, Acres, etc. Even Cuningham would be ahead of him for midfield minutes IMO. I don't think he's useless but our list is at a stage where some very good players are going to miss out.

Dow is a different story. He has always had some unique attributes that give him the potential to be an elite clearance player, and they are qualities we don't have much of in our midfield mix, as good as it is.

_________________

GE, I'm not bagging LOB. Incessantly bagging?

I'm merely pointing out where I think he sits behind a group of wings and we need to cull 2 rookies. I don't think anyone disagrees, other than Sidey, and that's OK, but lets get real, whilst he's defending LOB, for weeks now, and his conviction is based on what he did in one game last year. That's clutching for straws, and you have been moved by it. If its not Ed and LOB to be left off the rookie list, its Ed and Durdin. Why I think it will be LOB is because we dont have KPD depth and heaps of wingers. That's not bagging out. That's commenting on our list profile.

Furthermore, lets get real, LOB was in the midfield group at the start of a game where our midfield staples in Dow Fogarty and Ed were missing, and looks like coach went for a bigger body in the midfield, with Carroll and Ramshaw, instead of Moshetti and Ramshaw (really small mids). His time in the midfield lasted maybe one quarter. Was it a reinvention of the player' role? I don't know, but it didn't look like it to me. Why didn't he go back into the midfield in that game, and the games thereafter? If you see that moment in time as a case of reinventing LOB, good luck to you.

What I am not doing is bagging him. His form in the reserves the last month imo seems to be fading. He might know something.

_________________
Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

Just a cautionary note on Paddy Dow boys . Elliot Yeo was at Brisbane then off to WestCoast . Didn't hit his straps till his mid twenties . Magnificent player Yeo . Not saying Dow is in the Yeo class but pretty good all the same . We have put all the hard work into Paddy and i would hate another Club to reap the rewards .

_________________
All my dangerous friends

Spot on and stop bagging LOB

Dow is behind all those you mention, and he has unique attributes but is not an elite midfielder. He's in the team because 3 of the mids ahead of him are out injured. Fact.

Dow has some serious weaknesses and its those weaknesses he knows he has to work on. In Dows interview after the Dees game, he even said he knows he's got to go back to the VFL and work on some things the coaches want. Have a guess what that is? Its pretty obvious, and I have mentioned what it is, and I'm not bagging Dow. I hope Dow signs with us if he's prepared to continue to be a depth player till he can improve the defensive side of his game, which is a serious weakness. Watch the GCS game again. Dows best happens later in the games when the pace of the game slows down. Its what makes him a good sub. What he seems to do is saving petrol tickets to have something left in the tank later on whilst his opponent tears us a new one. Coaches know this. He's playing because we have 3 major injuries to mids, and coached believe Dow is ahead of Carroll and Fisher in the midfield.

I couldn't give a stuff id Voss picks Dow in Finals, or Fisher, but I'm happy to discuss why they would or why they wouldn't.

I'm rapt with the season we've had. We've regained some respect and we can see what this list can do and can't do. We are playing to our potential.

What I'm pointing out is strengths and weaknesses, and stating them when others seem to be happy to avoid pointing out the player weaknesses for fear of being labelled as "Bagging Players". Its a forum to discuss these issues, not hide from them. So, to those bagging me, stop bagging me and bag the points I make.

The bloke I'm most worried about is ahead of both Dow and LOB, and that's SOS. His progress from his knee injury against Pies had not been made public. He played in the reserves for 1 and a half quarters, then went off. He didn't look right to me with his disposal being a bit off and then he went off the ground. No one I have spoken with knows anything about his health. He is very important to the group this Finals campaign.

_________________
Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

Yeah I’m concerned about JSOS. Someone posted he’s going in for scans on the knee today. He’s not in your best 22 though is he bondi?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

_________________

There's lots of those stories Mickstar. Yeo wasnt a bad player at Lions. Had a bit of go and always tackled hard. Dow has shown more improvement in his game because of his improved body strength, and was good from the get go this yearand should've been selected earlier with injuries we had to mids, as I said back then.

There's still hope Dow will get better and iron out his weakness. That's why I would like to keep him. But I hope we don't select him to play Finals if we are trying to incent him to sign on. I don't think Vossy would do that.

The issue we have, and we have to get use to it, is we have to make changes to our list: 3 each year. Because of the deep cuts to our list and plethora of first rounders drafted and traded in, we will be forced to let a few go and get use to it. We always knew that was going to happen.

Gone are first rounders Pickett, SPS, Stocker, and Setterfield. Life goes on. Dow and LOB may be next. We have to get use to it. As long as we keep the players we want to keep. Dow might check out whether we offer a 2 year contract or not. Its not that he's no good, but because he is behind too many other players, he wants opportunity. That happens to all teams. Players leave for better opportunity.

I hope Dow stays. I thought he would jump at a contract extension, but he hasnt, and doesnt look like he is going to stay to me. I'm glad his value has increased from recent exposure. Anything can happen.

_________________
Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

Dane Swan didn't really impact a footy field until his age 27th-28th season.

thing about Dow is, he's not better than cerra or walsh. he can't take his game to the wing or HBF or forward pocket. he's an in and under mid, of which we're pretty blessed to have a couple guys even better than he.

dow deserves to play afl. it just might not be with us. if we get a 2nd round pick for him, i'd say take it.

In a Grand Final, I would have a fit and firing Jack Silvagni as sub . Kennedy would be a great sub too, but I'd give the nod to Jack over Kennedy, unfairly, for sentimental reasons and respect of the heritage of his family. Its a great story. I think Vossy will be wrestling with this if we make the GF. I'm glad I dont have to make that decsion.

Another thing, if one of our rucks is injured and can't play, its SOS or Young. Depends on the opposition really. Gawn vs SOS; no thanks, Cox vs SOS: no thanks. but I'd still have SOS as a sub.

_________________
Everyone looks good in Navy Blue