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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2023 6:10 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
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Location: Bondi Beach
Crusader wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
FarmerBlue wrote:
https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-41204893.html


One of Kerry’s most precocious dual players Rob Monahan is on the cusp of signing a two year contract with Melbourne AFL club Carlton.

Monahan, who plays football with Ardfert and hurling with Kilmoyley, is set to head Down Under in late October or early November to join up with his new teammates in the Australian Football League.



Great news. A free player. Not counted towards the salary cap.

I think we can sign up another Irish lad, but that would have to be through the rookie draft.

I don’t know the correct terminology, but let’s go with ‘rehoming fees’… I believe they’re counted somewhere under the soft cap.

If he does sign on, he’ll be the 46th player committed to the club.

44 Total:
36-38 Primary
4-6 Category A

There’s no limit for Category B - until logic kicks in. You can’t have any more than four, given the other conditions.

* subject to makey uppy, of course.


The last bit excites me, because I know there were a dozen players in Ireland the recruiters had another look at, and why not if we can.

I dont think the Cat B is anywhere in the soft cap.
Its the 2nd Irishman (yes Country specific) who goes under the salary similar to a Cat A, 'Rookie' in the cap. IIRC

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2023 6:48 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Location: Melbourne
Sidefx wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
sinbagger wrote:
Paddycripps wrote:
LOB in the guts? For real??


Yes, looked ok, at VFL level.



and the list keeps looking better as the fruits of development plays a bigger role at Carlton. Having our own VFL team is the catalyst.

There's also forgotten players returning from long term injuries too: Charlie last year, Cuningham, Gov, Martin, Marchbank.

I can't see players wanting to leave the club. Fisher doesn't have to go, even if the club wants to accomadate a trade; he's contracted.

Now, if LOB looks ok as a mid, would he be behind Dow who is behind Cerra, Kennedy, Walsh, and next year maybe a Gresham type?
Is LOB worth keeping as a mid, coz we don't need him on a wing. I can see Austin looking for a home for LOB.


LOB's biggest criticism is he short steps the contest and he panics if under pressure.
If playing him in the midfield gets rid of these to a degree (I doubt it will 100%, like Young also) then he possesses other important attributes that our wings and Dow don't have.
Dow is a terrible kick, always has been and always will. I want him to succeed but he really needs to work on this but he may never be able to.
He showed glimpses on the weekend, but up until that goal he was going to be subbed off.
LOB is both quicker and a better kick than all of our other wings and a better kick than Dow, just not as tough (neither was Dow or even Fish to a degree until this year either) which has been his downfall for the Voss high pressure contested game plan.
Gresham is not a wing, plays mid but really is a forward and if we get him it will be to cover Cunningham or Cottrell at the moment not any of the mids.


LOB does simply not have the capacity to play in games like the one against Melbourne i.e. Finals type game. The intensity and physicality of it is out of his range. He is not mentally built to perform in that caldron for contest after contest.

Regards Cazzesman

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 Post subject: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2023 6:50 pm 
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Wayne Johnston
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Posts: 8944
Location: Melbourne
Cazzesman wrote:
Sidefx wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
sinbagger wrote:
Paddycripps wrote:
LOB in the guts? For real??


Yes, looked ok, at VFL level.



and the list keeps looking better as the fruits of development plays a bigger role at Carlton. Having our own VFL team is the catalyst.

There's also forgotten players returning from long term injuries too: Charlie last year, Cuningham, Gov, Martin, Marchbank.

I can't see players wanting to leave the club. Fisher doesn't have to go, even if the club wants to accomadate a trade; he's contracted.

Now, if LOB looks ok as a mid, would he be behind Dow who is behind Cerra, Kennedy, Walsh, and next year maybe a Gresham type?
Is LOB worth keeping as a mid, coz we don't need him on a wing. I can see Austin looking for a home for LOB.


LOB's biggest criticism is he short steps the contest and he panics if under pressure.
If playing him in the midfield gets rid of these to a degree (I doubt it will 100%, like Young also) then he possesses other important attributes that our wings and Dow don't have.
Dow is a terrible kick, always has been and always will. I want him to succeed but he really needs to work on this but he may never be able to.
He showed glimpses on the weekend, but up until that goal he was going to be subbed off.
LOB is both quicker and a better kick than all of our other wings and a better kick than Dow, just not as tough (neither was Dow or even Fish to a degree until this year either) which has been his downfall for the Voss high pressure contested game plan.
Gresham is not a wing, plays mid but really is a forward and if we get him it will be to cover Cunningham or Cottrell at the moment not any of the mids.


LOB does simply not have the capacity to play in games like the one against Melbourne i.e. Finals type game. The intensity and physicality of it is out of his range. He is not mentally built to perform in that caldron for contest after contest.

Regards Cazzesman


Yep. LOB has always been on the fringes. Now so many have gone past him he has no chance of getting back in the side


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2023 8:09 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:10 am
Posts: 1495
Cazzesman wrote:
Sidefx wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
sinbagger wrote:
Paddycripps wrote:
LOB in the guts? For real??


Yes, looked ok, at VFL level.



and the list keeps looking better as the fruits of development plays a bigger role at Carlton. Having our own VFL team is the catalyst.

There's also forgotten players returning from long term injuries too: Charlie last year, Cuningham, Gov, Martin, Marchbank.

I can't see players wanting to leave the club. Fisher doesn't have to go, even if the club wants to accomadate a trade; he's contracted.

Now, if LOB looks ok as a mid, would he be behind Dow who is behind Cerra, Kennedy, Walsh, and next year maybe a Gresham type?
Is LOB worth keeping as a mid, coz we don't need him on a wing. I can see Austin looking for a home for LOB.


LOB's biggest criticism is he short steps the contest and he panics if under pressure.
If playing him in the midfield gets rid of these to a degree (I doubt it will 100%, like Young also) then he possesses other important attributes that our wings and Dow don't have.
Dow is a terrible kick, always has been and always will. I want him to succeed but he really needs to work on this but he may never be able to.
He showed glimpses on the weekend, but up until that goal he was going to be subbed off.
LOB is both quicker and a better kick than all of our other wings and a better kick than Dow, just not as tough (neither was Dow or even Fish to a degree until this year either) which has been his downfall for the Voss high pressure contested game plan.
Gresham is not a wing, plays mid but really is a forward and if we get him it will be to cover Cunningham or Cottrell at the moment not any of the mids.


LOB does simply not have the capacity to play in games like the one against Melbourne i.e. Finals type game. The intensity and physicality of it is out of his range. He is not mentally built to perform in that caldron for contest after contest.

Regards Cazzesman



Serious question.

Can a player learn it or they may just be late developers? Can a new coaching group/culture change this. I am sure the coaches address the issues. Can a change in role and confidence make a difference?


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2023 8:48 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Serious answer, many of us were able to observe this after only a small handful of games.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2023 10:03 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 24689
Location: Bondi Beach
bondiblue wrote:
Crusader wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
FarmerBlue wrote:
https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-41204893.html


One of Kerry’s most precocious dual players Rob Monahan is on the cusp of signing a two year contract with Melbourne AFL club Carlton.

Monahan, who plays football with Ardfert and hurling with Kilmoyley, is set to head Down Under in late October or early November to join up with his new teammates in the Australian Football League.



Great news. A free player. Not counted towards the salary cap.

I think we can sign up another Irish lad, but that would have to be through the rookie draft.

I don’t know the correct terminology, but let’s go with ‘rehoming fees’… I believe they’re counted somewhere under the soft cap.

If he does sign on, he’ll be the 46th player committed to the club.

44 Total:
36-38 Primary
4-6 Category A

There’s no limit for Category B - until logic kicks in. You can’t have any more than four, given the other conditions.

* subject to makey uppy, of course.


The last bit excites me, because I know there were a dozen players in Ireland the recruiters had another look at, and why not if we can.

I dont think the Cat B is anywhere in the soft cap.
Its the 2nd Irishman (yes Country specific) who goes under the salary similar to a Cat A, 'Rookie' in the cap. IIRC


Reported in the AGe that we've settled on 194-centimetre running machine Matt Duffy, who plays for Longford, and highly rated Kerry under-20 footballer Rob Monahan.

Quote:
Duffy, one of Ireland’s rising stars, won the two-kilometre time trial as part of the testing the Irish players conducted and his height and endurance mean he projects as a versatile option. Monahan, who is 189 centimetres, is also an excellent athlete and has already performed well in Gaelic football, hurling and rugby.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2023 12:33 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:10 am
Posts: 1495
GCS have 3 Academy players that Cal Twomey ranks as Top 12 Draft Picks

Massive opportunity to grab 1 or 2 early draft picks by trading picks with them. Given our list adding a couple of early guns would be awesome. All talk is Top 10 is excellent

WCE are also keen to trade Pick 1 for numerous picks. Harley Reid would be a good addition :smoking:


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 Post subject: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2023 12:38 pm 
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Wayne Johnston
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Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2007 9:35 am
Posts: 8944
Location: Melbourne
FarmerBlue wrote:
GCS have 3 players that Cal Twomey ranks as Top 12 Draft Picks

Massive opportunity to grab 1 or 2 early draft picks by trading picks with them. Given our list adding a couple of early guns would be awesome. All talk is Top 10 is excellent

WCE are also keen to trade Pick 1 for numerous picks. Harley Reid would be a good addition :smoking:


It’s an absolute disgrace that GC can get access to 3 top 12 players. Blatantly rigged competition to favour the northern clubs. To think that they openly gave Sydney an extra $1m in the salary cap for years, now they give them stacked access to young talent. Joke of an organisation


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2023 12:40 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:10 am
Posts: 1495
Can we get more picks?
Can Dow, Fisher get us picks in the 30-40s?
I'd swap next years First Round pick. Will be Pick 18 anyway


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2023 1:50 pm 
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Ken Hunter

Joined: Thu May 11, 2006 6:11 pm
Posts: 14900
jake_h03 wrote:
FarmerBlue wrote:
GCS have 3 players that Cal Twomey ranks as Top 12 Draft Picks

Massive opportunity to grab 1 or 2 early draft picks by trading picks with them. Given our list adding a couple of early guns would be awesome. All talk is Top 10 is excellent

WCE are also keen to trade Pick 1 for numerous picks. Harley Reid would be a good addition :smoking:


It’s an absolute disgrace that GC can get access to 3 top 12 players. Blatantly rigged competition to favour the northern clubs. To think that they openly gave Sydney an extra $1m in the salary cap for years, now they give them stacked access to young talent. Joke of an organisation


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It certainly is.
The AFL only seems to be concerned with a handful of clubs, we are not one of them clearly.
I cannot believe that there was not a big outcry when they were handed 3 years of draft concessions and were given an extra zone.
I am sure they have their grubby hands all over the Hardwick situation too.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2023 2:03 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 24689
Location: Bondi Beach
The more I look at it Farmer the more I'm convinced we might take only 2 picks in the draft: both good picks, and possibly a promotion from rookie list if needed to fit in the 2 Irish boys (assuming both Cat B but 2nd one's salary has to be factored as a rookie cost, hopefully not a spot on rookie list)

Draft pick #1 2023 First round

Draft Pick #2 2003 to be made up of 2024 first rounder and the later picks 64, 70, 84.

Giving us two great kids.

Not sure about FA being an absolute, but we will see how the season rolls out and who we want to keep for another year. Hopefully we can trade Fisher for another pick and if there's no takers he may be given away to create a spot for a promoted rookie.

If we can't trade Fisher (because he's on contract), and we decide to keep Dow on minimum wage, 3 of the OOC players Plowman, Marchbank, Fogarty, Honey and Philp must be delisted or demoted to rookie list to make room for 3 new players on the Primary List.

Our depth is looking like quality and our developing players still developing. I would prefer Plowman and Fogarty delisted and Marchbank demoted to rookie list and keep Honey and Philp TBH.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2023 2:06 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 24689
Location: Bondi Beach
kezza wrote:
jake_h03 wrote:
FarmerBlue wrote:
GCS have 3 players that Cal Twomey ranks as Top 12 Draft Picks

Massive opportunity to grab 1 or 2 early draft picks by trading picks with them. Given our list adding a couple of early guns would be awesome. All talk is Top 10 is excellent

WCE are also keen to trade Pick 1 for numerous picks. Harley Reid would be a good addition :smoking:


It’s an absolute disgrace that GC can get access to 3 top 12 players. Blatantly rigged competition to favour the northern clubs. To think that they openly gave Sydney an extra $1m in the salary cap for years, now they give them stacked access to young talent. Joke of an organisation


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

It certainly is.
The AFL only seems to be concerned with a handful of clubs, we are not one of them clearly.
I cannot believe that there was not a big outcry when they were handed 3 years of draft concessions and were given an extra zone.
I am sure they have their grubby hands all over the Hardwick situation too.


Corrupting the outcome is part of the Commission's DNA. The AFL Commission have their grubby hands over everything and anything that's contentious.

Prefer the free market approach than being run by a Commission who lacks transparency and not representing all teams equally.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2023 2:10 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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bondiblue wrote:
The more I look at it Farmer the more I'm convinced we might take only 2 picks in the draft: both good picks, and possibly a promotion from rookie list if needed to fit in the 2 Irish boys (assuming both Cat B but 2nd one's salary has to be factored as a rookie cost, hopefully not a spot on rookie list)

Draft pick #1 2023 First round

Draft Pick #2 2003 to be made up of 2024 first rounder and the later picks 64, 70, 84.

Giving us two great kids.

Not sure about FA being an absolute, but we will see how the season rolls out and who we want to keep for another year. Hopefully we can trade Fisher for another pick and if there's no takers he may be given away to create a spot for a promoted rookie.

If we can't trade Fisher (because he's on contract), and we decide to keep Dow on minimum wage, 3 of the OOC players Plowman, Marchbank, Fogarty, Honey and Philp must be delisted or demoted to rookie list to make room for 3 new players on the Primary List.

Our depth is looking like quality and our developing players still developing. I would prefer Plowman and Fogarty delisted and Marchbank demoted to rookie list and keep Honey and Philp TBH.



Surely Bondi it would need to be Honey or Philp to be rookied instead of Marchbank given he is being selected on a consistent basis (now fit)? Philp hasn't played in the one's at all this year.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2023 3:15 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:10 am
Posts: 1495
bondiblue wrote:
The more I look at it Farmer the more I'm convinced we might take only 2 picks in the draft: both good picks, and possibly a promotion from rookie list if needed to fit in the 2 Irish boys (assuming both Cat B but 2nd one's salary has to be factored as a rookie cost, hopefully not a spot on rookie list)


It's heading that way but I think it will be all about what picks we can get

At the moment we have 13 and 60 something
Will we get anything if Dow and Fisher go and will we trade future picks?
Cook has said we will go to the draft and a FA. Do this, get some more young talent in will help our Salary Cap and balance our list
We have also done well with late and rookie picks so I hope we go down that path again

I still see a minimum 6-8 changes to refresh the list and fill some holes

Plowman Honey Philp Ed will leave/retire
Dow will likely be traded
S.Durdin will likely be kept if we can't land another key defender
Fogarty will be interesting. Been good but still only a role player
Marchbank Fisher have question marks for different reasons

My take is we go to the draft for about 3
Get a FA
Maybe a DFA
Then rookies & pre season drafts


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2023 3:29 pm 
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Robert Walls
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I agree Farmer.

Also worth noting we will need some later picks next year in order to build enough points for the Camporeale twins (if we choose to take them) so swapping non-core players for future picks might be something the club considers

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2023 3:57 pm 
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Harry Vallence

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Sources: Carlton's interest in Jade Gresham has cooled significantly in recent weeks, with the club's focus staying with the draft, internal improvement & options that may come up later in the year. Any move for the restricted free agent were described as 'highly unlikely'.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2023 4:01 pm 
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Harry Vallence

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That is good news. not sold on Gresham

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2023 4:43 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Happy about that - and look forward to proper development of the new Irish lads.


:thumbsup:

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2023 4:54 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Excellent….

now about these Irish Boys and payment…
how many sack of spuds is it going to take…?

because i can shoot down the highway
to Thorpdale…those lads won’t know what
hit them…!

SURE there’s ya common garden variety
Koo Wee Rup spud…but ya Thorpdale starch…?

that’s where it’s at I’m telling yas…!

pure potato bliss…!


kindest regards tommi

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2023 5:00 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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tommi wrote:
Excellent….

now about these Irish Boys and payment…
how many sack of spuds is it going to take…?

because i can shoot down the highway
to Thorpdale…those lads won’t know what
hit them…!

SURE there’s ya common garden variety
Koo Wee Rup spud…but ya Thorpdale starch…?

that’s where it’s at I’m telling yas…!

pure potato bliss…!


kindest regards tommi


Yep , there's spuds , and there's Thorpdale spuds . And the Warrnambool spuds run a close second . Daylight after that .

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