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Mosquito Fleet
 Post subject: Re: List Management 2016
PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 5:16 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2009 2:56 pm
Posts: 2477
BigBlueWave wrote:
Reported that the blues are furious at what has happened.


what part of the club is furious - pratt or mathieson?
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barass
 Post subject: Re: List Management 2016
PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 5:20 pm 
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Bert Deacon
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Joined: Sun May 07, 2006 7:36 pm
Posts: 557
Location: In the coach's box
Mosquito Fleet wrote:
Michael Jezz wrote:
Avoid a train wreck blues. Trading Gibbs for effectively Marchbank and Steak knives is not a great deal.
Gibbs is worth 2 picks in the teens and we should keep both
Thouy is worth a pick between 17 & 20. Coaches have him in their best 22. If we have to we should trade the Thouy pick for Marchbank and Steak knives say Stewart. Then pick one of the other GWS steak knives as a DFA.

We then could end up with pick 5 + 2 other picks inside 20 + Marchbank + Stewart and Horvat.
and a bottom four finish next year. Our Midfield looks like Cripps, Murphy, Horvat, Curnow, Kerridge


gibbs is not worth 2 1st rd picks

get a grip


In this particular circumstance he is. Adelaide coughs up or we deal with Port... which may call Gibbs bluff.

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Mosquito Fleet
 Post subject: Re: List Management 2016
PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 5:23 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2009 2:56 pm
Posts: 2477
barass wrote:
Mosquito Fleet wrote:
Michael Jezz wrote:
Avoid a train wreck blues. Trading Gibbs for effectively Marchbank and Steak knives is not a great deal.
Gibbs is worth 2 picks in the teens and we should keep both
Thouy is worth a pick between 17 & 20. Coaches have him in their best 22. If we have to we should trade the Thouy pick for Marchbank and Steak knives say Stewart. Then pick one of the other GWS steak knives as a DFA.

We then could end up with pick 5 + 2 other picks inside 20 + Marchbank + Stewart and Horvat.
and a bottom four finish next year. Our Midfield looks like Cripps, Murphy, Horvat, Curnow, Kerridge


gibbs is not worth 2 1st rd picks

get a grip


In this particular circumstance he is. Adelaide coughs up or we deal with Port... which may call Gibbs bluff.


that's a different issue - market value v actual value
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carntheblues
 Post subject: Re: List Management 2016
PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 5:24 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2011 4:05 pm
Posts: 2712
I prefer to keep Gibbs and there is a fare chance that will happen.
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barass
 Post subject: Re: List Management 2016
PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 5:31 pm 
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Bert Deacon
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Joined: Sun May 07, 2006 7:36 pm
Posts: 557
Location: In the coach's box
Mosquito Fleet wrote:
barass wrote:
Mosquito Fleet wrote:
Michael Jezz wrote:
Avoid a train wreck blues. Trading Gibbs for effectively Marchbank and Steak knives is not a great deal.
Gibbs is worth 2 picks in the teens and we should keep both
Thouy is worth a pick between 17 & 20. Coaches have him in their best 22. If we have to we should trade the Thouy pick for Marchbank and Steak knives say Stewart. Then pick one of the other GWS steak knives as a DFA.

We then could end up with pick 5 + 2 other picks inside 20 + Marchbank + Stewart and Horvat.
and a bottom four finish next year. Our Midfield looks like Cripps, Murphy, Horvat, Curnow, Kerridge


gibbs is not worth 2 1st rd picks

get a grip


In this particular circumstance he is. Adelaide coughs up or we deal with Port... which may call Gibbs bluff.


that's a different issue - market value v actual value


No it's not. We are talking about the situation at hand that's presented.

Think about it... probably has at least 5 yrs of footy ahead, we have a 3yr contract on him, the buyer is exceptionally keen NOW to the point they couldn't hide their excitement and bleat to the press, recent B&F. Says he wants to go back to SA, so we can deal with two clubs. Why would we trade if we don't get all this value priced in, if not then just keep him and move on.

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Mosquito Fleet
 Post subject: Re: List Management 2016
PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 6:16 pm 
Offline
Rod Ashman

Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2009 2:56 pm
Posts: 2477
barass wrote:
Mosquito Fleet wrote:
barass wrote:
Mosquito Fleet wrote:
Michael Jezz wrote:
Avoid a train wreck blues. Trading Gibbs for effectively Marchbank and Steak knives is not a great deal.
Gibbs is worth 2 picks in the teens and we should keep both
Thouy is worth a pick between 17 & 20. Coaches have him in their best 22. If we have to we should trade the Thouy pick for Marchbank and Steak knives say Stewart. Then pick one of the other GWS steak knives as a DFA.

We then could end up with pick 5 + 2 other picks inside 20 + Marchbank + Stewart and Horvat.
and a bottom four finish next year. Our Midfield looks like Cripps, Murphy, Horvat, Curnow, Kerridge


gibbs is not worth 2 1st rd picks

get a grip


In this particular circumstance he is. Adelaide coughs up or we deal with Port... which may call Gibbs bluff.


that's a different issue - market value v actual value


No it's not. We are talking about the situation at hand that's presented.

Think about it... probably has at least 5 yrs of footy ahead, we have a 3yr contract on him, the buyer is exceptionally keen NOW to the point they couldn't hide their excitement and bleat to the press, recent B&F. Says he wants to go back to SA, so we can deal with two clubs. Why would we trade if we don't get all this value priced in, if not then just keep him and move on.


i agree with you to extract the maximum in return...no argument from me.

if we only get a 1st round - we take the deal and move on

Gibbs has stated he wants adelaide ----so hes gawn
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Hornet
 Post subject: Re: List Management 2016
PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 7:05 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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Joined: Sat May 21, 2005 5:15 pm
Posts: 7354
We hold all the cards... we play hardball with the Crows

I'm sick of our club being the nice guy

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ColourMan
 Post subject: Re: List Management 2016
PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 7:09 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2007 11:51 am
Posts: 1291
Effes wrote:
Blowing the place up


Yep, might be difficult to attract free agents...
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ColourMan
 Post subject: Re: List Management 2016
PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 7:17 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2007 11:51 am
Posts: 1291
Effes wrote:
Talrahir wrote:
On another matter, I was crunching the numbers, and we could also work our way up the draft order if we trade our pick #23 + #48 for GWS pick #17. We go up 5 places in the draft and GWS get close to an extra 100 points for their academy picks.


:wink:



Rules have changed, not as simple to swap draft picks this year...

Some clubs were taking advantage last year...
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Effes
 Post subject: Re: List Management 2016
PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 7:50 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 2:37 pm
Posts: 19393
Location: afl.virtualsports.com.au
ColourMan wrote:
Effes wrote:
Talrahir wrote:
On another matter, I was crunching the numbers, and we could also work our way up the draft order if we trade our pick #23 + #48 for GWS pick #17. We go up 5 places in the draft and GWS get close to an extra 100 points for their academy picks.


:wink:



Rules have changed, not as simple to swap draft picks this year...

Some clubs were taking advantage last year...


Still workable.

Quote:
The AFL changed the bidding system this year, ruling that the number of picks a club takes into a draft must match the number of available spots on their list.

The change was made to discourage northern clubs from trading down the order to acquire extra draft points.

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ColourMan
 Post subject: Re: List Management 2016
PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 8:01 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2007 11:51 am
Posts: 1291
BigKev wrote:
Given Tuohy's played the last 90 games consecutively , 7th in B&F this year, 3rd last year plus he got into the coaches AA team, I'd say nothing less than top 20.

The worry for me is that first he really wanted to go to Nth, now it's Geelong. Starting to sound like anywhere but Carlton. (No idea why this would be the case, unless it simply comes down to money).


Geelong's have less space in their salary cap than us, yet the Cats are prepared to offer Zach more money than we are...

And we're not going to have worry about Daisy's bloated contract this time next year...
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bondiblue
 Post subject: Re: List Management 2016
PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 8:03 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 25065
Location: Bondi Beach
List will improve over next 3 years with the proposed changes.

Improve the team by 5 players with GWS
Get a first round pick plus player from Adelaide for 28yo Gibbs
Tuohy to get us an early 2nd rounder plus a player
Hrovat for 3rd rounder next year

I'm excited by the age profile and the increase in class.

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Dodo27
 Post subject: Re: List Management 2016
PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 8:27 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:13 pm
Posts: 1161
Location: Narre Warren VIC
Our Ruck Division is totally Crap-Below average, so how about we ask Geelong to give us one of theirs for a direct Swap with Zac T?

Stanley/Smith/Blicvas?


OR we could ask for One of their 2nd division midfielders ( Caddy/Duncan/Cowan/Bews?)
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london blue
 Post subject: Re: List Management 2016
PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 8:40 pm 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2005 3:08 pm
Posts: 3253
bondiblue wrote:
List will improve over next 3 years with the proposed changes.

Improve the team by 5 players with GWS
Get a first round pick plus player from Adelaide for 28yo Gibbs
Tuohy to get us an early 2nd rounder plus a player
Hrovat for 3rd rounder next year

I'm excited by the age profile and the increase in class.


You're all over it BB :clap:
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BigBlueWave
 Post subject: Re: List Management 2016
PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 9:21 pm 
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formerly BlueRob
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Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2005 12:45 pm
Posts: 3073
We are a FEEDER club now to the more successful ones ... most likely stuck in the cycle for years ... 3 more years without success and Cripps will be gone.

I really hate whats happened to football and people will gradually become disenfranchised and for good reason.

I did however like what McKay had to say ... If Gibbs has to go, I hope we play hard ball.

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choo
 Post subject: List Management 2016
PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 9:43 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2006 10:37 pm
Posts: 1585
Location: The Clinic across the road.
Lose
Gibbs, Tuohy, Kreuzer.
Go to the draft with 3 first round picks
get the GWS 5 for one first round pick
save salary cap.
Get Fyfe and Shiel next year as free agents
Contend for a flag in 18-19
It's viable

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Mosquito Fleet
 Post subject: Re: List Management 2016
PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 9:45 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2009 2:56 pm
Posts: 2477
BigBlueWave wrote:
We are a FEEDER club now to the more successful ones ... most likely stuck in the cycle for years ... 3 more years without success and Cripps will be gone.

I really hate whats happened to football and people will gradually become disenfranchised and for good reason.

I did however like what McKay had to say ... If Gibbs has to go, I hope we play hard ball.



Rather than commenting on the symptom comment on the cause and suggest a solution
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Blue Sombrero
 Post subject: Re: List Management 2016
PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 11:25 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 10:56 am
Posts: 19501
Location: Progreso, Yucatan, MEXICO
Talrahir wrote:
Blue Sombrero wrote:
Talrahir wrote:
17th Premiership wrote:
Is Marchbank really worth pick 13??

(I know a few steps to go before that but is he really worth a 1st round pick??)


I don't think he is. I definately didn't think he was worth pick 5, even with steak knives. We really need a midfielder from the draft at pick 5.

The problem I see, is that our pick 24 doesn't get it done. We're not going to get much better for Tuohy from North, if that happens. North would still need to trade for that pick as they don't have anything in the 20's.

So it looks like the simplest arrangement would be to use the Henderson pick, but to get Marchbank and maybe Stewart. Or pick 13 for Marchbank and their pick 33.

We may then look at trading our pick 24 and 33 (from Marchbank deal) for a higher pick?

EFA


Sorry mate. You've shot straight passed me. I'm not sure what you mean. I know what EFA means, and I noticed you substituted pick 13 for Henderson, but I'm still missing it...

That netted pick 17....but that was a complex trade. Apart from that I can only imagine you are criticising that deal, and suggesting this would be the same?

The simplest way to look at the deal is that we got Harry McKay (pick #8), Sumner, Phillips, Lamb, Plowman, and Kerridge. We gave up Menzel, Henderson.

I'd really call that a win.

Nah. Nothing so sinister. The Henderson pick doesn't exist but it's been bandied about for a few weeks as a possible trade by those who didn't realize or by those stirring the pot.

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Michael Jezz
 Post subject: Re: List Management 2016
PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2016 12:18 am 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:52 pm
Posts: 2044
Mosquito Fleet wrote:
Michael Jezz wrote:
Avoid a train wreck blues. Trading Gibbs for effectively Marchbank and Steak knives is not a great deal.
Gibbs is worth 2 picks in the teens and we should keep both
Thouy is worth a pick between 17 & 20. Coaches have him in their best 22. If we have to we should trade the Thouy pick for Marchbank and Steak knives say Stewart. Then pick one of the other GWS steak knives as a DFA.

We then could end up with pick 5 + 2 other picks inside 20 + Marchbank + Stewart and Horvat.
and a bottom four finish next year. Our Midfield looks like Cripps, Murphy, Horvat, Curnow, Kerridge


gibbs is not worth 2 1st rd picks

get a grip


Yes he is.
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DesEnglish
 Post subject: Re: List Management 2016
PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2016 6:37 am 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Fri May 18, 2007 2:10 pm
Posts: 2867
Mosquito Fleet wrote:
BigBlueWave wrote:
We are a FEEDER club now to the more successful ones ... most likely stuck in the cycle for years ... 3 more years without success and Cripps will be gone.

I really hate whats happened to football and people will gradually become disenfranchised and for good reason.

I did however like what McKay had to say ... If Gibbs has to go, I hope we play hard ball.



Rather than commenting on the symptom comment on the cause and suggest a solution


The cause is player recognise that we have botched previous attempts at rebuilding and don't trust us to get it right. People on here see it, why wouldn't they?
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