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 Post subject: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2023 9:26 am 
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John Nicholls

Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 12:18 pm
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Braithy wrote:
bender wrote:
CK95 wrote:
Hard no to Ben MacKay

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Why is that CK?



he's oft injured and not very good or maybe consistent is a better word. has flashes sure, but rarely maintains it.


Sounds a bit like Dorotich.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2023 10:53 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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jake_h03 wrote:
Gresham is bang average. Would rather keep what we’ve got on lower coin


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His midfield work was crap.
His set shot for goal was kicked like an old man and didnt make the distance.
He didnt put body on his opponent when he should have.
Downhill skier.

His best is past him.
I'd rather keep 23yo Dow than take 26yo has been Gresham.

Anyone see things differently?

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2023 10:58 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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Braithy? Others who want to Trade Harry McKay for a pick?

Tell me you could see Charlie double teamed against Saints, as expected.
Tell me you could see the benefit of having a 203cm mobile KPF (Harry) to help out. TDK is 203 and he really couldn't.)
Harry is just as dangerous as his twin tower, Charlie, and would have caused huge problems for Saints if one was leading out past the arc taking marks, whilst the other was at FF.

Even if they stood together (not playing the same role), and then started to move in different directions, there would be no double teaming, and would create 2 one on one options to kick to.

Harry and Charlie are 2 of the best marks in the competition, and Harry is back soon, just in time to warm up before Finals.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2023 11:14 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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All these borderline players due to injury Cuningham, Gov, Fogarty, Marchy, Kennedy, Williams, and those with too many ahead of them like Dow and Fisher who were earmarked for delisting are all looking like serviceable soldiers.

I can't see any reason for us to delist 5-6 come seasons end.

I reckon Dow would love to stay, and Crusader, you still don't think Dow's value has gone up with AFL exposure?
If he chooses to stay on cheap termes, well and good, but if he's leaving we may get something valuable for him now: 2nd Round Pick from North, Hawks or Eagles. As for Fisher, Eagles may have seen something after going cold on him.

I'd still hate to see 22yo kids like Philp and Honey delisted because we choose to keep all of the above.

First Round Pick: space made by LOB (pay him out)
Pick we get for trading out 2024 first rounder: Space made by Fisher
Third pick is upgrade Cottrell from Rookie
Fourth Pick is upgrade Boyd from Rookie

Ed creates a spot on Rookie list for a demotion of one of the above.

Hey IF we get a great pick by bundling picks 62, 68, 82 and next year's first rounder, there's an even better candidate from the position Fisher has opened up.

Marchbank looked well off the pace, but he's going to have another chance to get with the program before Gov returns from a hammy, or he may be the one demoted to rookie status.

Note: We have 2 too many on our rookie list we are forced to drop.

Its I great list. One more KPD, and another dependable ruck is about all we need. We have enough quality mids if we are letting go our first round picks for nothing: SPS, Stocker, Setterfield, Dow, Fisher. That has to stop. The draft is no guarantee we will find better than Dow imo.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2023 11:22 am 
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Bruce Doull
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sinbagger wrote:
Sounds a bit like Dorotich.



:lol:

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2023 11:23 am 
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Bruce Doull
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Braithy wrote:
bender wrote:
CK95 wrote:
Hard no to Ben MacKay

Sent from my Nokia G21 using Tapatalk


Why is that CK?



he's oft injured and not very good or maybe consistent is a better word. has flashes sure, but rarely maintains it.



What Braithy said. But mainly his injury history

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2023 11:25 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
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Location: Bondi Beach
Quote:
Out-of-contract midfielder Paddy Dow made a statement on Sunday, producing his best performance of the year to show Carlton he still has plenty to offer. The oft-maligned third overall pick from the 2017 draft has been linked with an off-season move, having struggled for AFL opportunities in 2023. Sunday's clash with St Kilda was only his seventh game of the season, five of which have come as the sub, and he only won his spot after Sam Walsh, Adam Cerra and Matt Kennedy missed out due to injury. But the 23-year-old delivered with 22 disposals including seven clearances, 10 contested possessions and the goal to put the Blues ahead in the final quarter. It remains to be seen what role Dow plays when the aforementioned trio of midfielders return, but Sunday's performance was exactly what the Blues needed to see from him - and could just increase his value on the trade market - Ben Somerford


https://www.afl.com.au/news/992518/nine-things-we-learned-paddy-shows-his-true-value

That's what I'm talking about.

Even the media have jumped onto it.
Dow has played well when he's come on as a sub: great numbers.
Half a game last week replacing Cerra in the win against the Pies, followed by 4 quarters of good footy vs Saints and Dow is looking valuable.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2023 12:13 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Not sure he was good for 4 quarters, thought he really grew into the game though & had a great Q4.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2023 12:20 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
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Location: Bondi Beach
CK95 wrote:
Not sure he was good for 4 quarters, thought he really grew into the game though & had a great Q4.


I don't think many were good for 4 quarters. We got well beaten in the 2nd, and the game was even in the first.


Its not what you think which will increase or decrease Dow's value, and its not about only one game either. He's played 7 games, 5 as sub, and he has performed. He's been picked in the team that has won 7 on the trot. That's the story, and he's made the headlines in every media outlet, and not one mentioned you CK :wink: Its nothing to do with what we think. Listen to the crowd over the last 7 weeks when Dow has come on to the ground and when he's done something, and listen to the commentary when that happens. Its been going on for 7 weeks.

Dow has been in the headlines all year for his consistent VFL form. Even Kane Cornes and David King have encouraged Dow to look elsewhere because they think he's better than VFL.

7 Clearances
10 contested possessions

He didn't get all those in the last Qtr, but at the end of the game, its those numbers that stand out for teams looking at him: North Hawks Eagles and last year Sydney had an offer for him but he was contracted and didnt want to leave his mates and live in Sydney.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2023 12:25 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Fair enough, I was just being a pedantic git bondi. I'd actually prefer to keep him as a depth player, but would understand if he left for greater opportunities.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2023 12:30 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Yup….

no thanks not for me…!


kindest regards tommi

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2023 12:33 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 4:04 pm
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bondiblue wrote:
I reckon Dow would love to stay, and Crusader, you still don't think Dow's value has gone up with AFL exposure?

Not really. I think we take anything to get him to the team of his choosing.

It just can’t be this one.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2023 12:37 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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On Ben McKay that is….!


kindest regards tommi

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2023 12:45 pm 
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John Nicholls
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Dow's value has definitely increased... hopefully it stays that way with a few more appearances until the cavalry arrives, then we can get him more opportunities (e.g. Norf or Eagles) and hopefully manufacture a decent trade/pick.

Has Ben McKay signed with Norf? Any intel on whether he wants to come to us (or of we want him?)

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2023 12:51 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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robertbb wrote:

Has Ben McKay signed with Norf? Any intel on whether he wants to come to us (or of we want him?)



There's talk Ess are keen on him, which would be fine by me

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 Post subject: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2023 1:25 pm 
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Wayne Johnston
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No point getting Ben McKay. We’ll only ever have one of him or Harry playing as they’re the same person


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2023 1:30 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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jake_h03 wrote:
No point getting Ben McKay. We’ll only ever have one of him or Harry playing as they’re the same person


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:lol:

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2023 1:31 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
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Location: Bondi Beach
Crusader wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
I reckon Dow would love to stay, and Crusader, you still don't think Dow's value has gone up with AFL exposure?

Not really. I think we take anything to get him to the team of his choosing.

It just can’t be this one.



You're entitled to think what you like.
I am too. I think you're being stubborn to agree.
Its staring at you in the face...every media outlet.
No doubt Dow has increased his value from exposure. Its really simple.

Its pretty obvious that media attention equals recognition.
Good performances on the big stage equals appreciation of ability.
Recognition of ability does equate to something more than if its not there

Now if there's 3 or 4 clubs keen on him, we have more clout in what is the best offer for the club.
I just want a better deal than the returns we got for 1st round picks Stocker and Setterfield. SPS return was less than what we paid but 2nd round pick got us a good footballer

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2023 1:32 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
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Location: Bondi Beach
robertbb wrote:
Dow's value has definitely increased... hopefully it stays that way with a few more appearances until the cavalry arrives, then we can get him more opportunities (e.g. Norf or Eagles) and hopefully manufacture a decent trade/pick.


Good onya Rob.
Basic 101 economics....eg positioning, promotion and pitch = price

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2023 1:44 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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bondiblue wrote:
All these borderline players due to injury Cuningham, Gov, Fogarty, Marchy, Kennedy, Williams, and those with too many ahead of them like Dow and Fisher who were earmarked for delisting are all looking like serviceable soldiers.

I can't see any reason for us to delist 5-6 come seasons end.

I reckon Dow would love to stay, and Crusader, you still don't think Dow's value has gone up with AFL exposure?
If he chooses to stay on cheap termes, well and good, but if he's leaving we may get something valuable for him now: 2nd Round Pick from North, Hawks or Eagles. As for Fisher, Eagles may have seen something after going cold on him.

I'd still hate to see 22yo kids like Philp and Honey delisted because we choose to keep all of the above.

First Round Pick: space made by LOB (pay him out)
Pick we get for trading out 2024 first rounder: Space made by Fisher
Third pick is upgrade Cottrell from Rookie
Fourth Pick is upgrade Boyd from Rookie

Ed creates a spot on Rookie list for a demotion of one of the above.

Hey IF we get a great pick by bundling picks 62, 68, 82 and next year's first rounder, there's an even better candidate from the position Fisher has opened up.

Marchbank looked well off the pace, but he's going to have another chance to get with the program before Gov returns from a hammy, or he may be the one demoted to rookie status.

Note: We have 2 too many on our rookie list we are forced to drop.

Its I great list. One more KPD, and another dependable ruck is about all we need. We have enough quality mids if we are letting go our first round picks for nothing: SPS, Stocker, Setterfield, Dow, Fisher. That has to stop. The draft is no guarantee we will find better than Dow imo.


1. LOB is a rookie.
2. Honey has shown nothing. Delist.
3. Can't see S. Durdin getting another year on the rookie list.
4. Plowman will be delisted.
5. I like Fisher and Dow for depth.

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