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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2025
PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2025 10:49 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 24658
Location: Bondi Beach
Wojee wrote:
Have no issue in moving Owies on, Kennedy on the other hand offers versatility that we could've used last night when we looked impotent going forward.



OK, so a forwadline would have looked like Harry Kemp Kennedy Motlop Fogarty Evans Cottrell.
I don't think Kennedy would have made the difference to the result imo, because those smalls would still have allowed their defenders to take the ball out with ease.

65 entries for a total of 9 goals into a congested forward line, providing no effort to keep the ground ball locked inside our 50. Harry and Kemp only kicked a goal each. Their job was to either mark or bring the ball to the ground. Same would be the case for Kennedy.

If we can't find a way to change the forward line modus operandi, we need to change the forward line. Simple as that, or our effort from up the ground will continue to be wasted.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2025
PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2025 10:57 am 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 4:04 pm
Posts: 7424
Location: Bendigo
Wojee wrote:
Have no issue in moving Owies on, Kennedy on the other hand offers versatility that we could've used last night when we looked impotent going forward.

Kennedy left us. He wasn’t pushed.

He’s a pigheaded grump that should’ve been managed better during that week.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2025
PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2025 11:12 am 
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Bruce Doull
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Posts: 35135
bondiblue wrote:
Wojee wrote:
Have no issue in moving Owies on, Kennedy on the other hand offers versatility that we could've used last night when we looked impotent going forward.



OK, so a forwadline would have looked like Harry Kemp Kennedy Motlop Fogarty Evans Cottrell.
I don't think Kennedy would have made the difference to the result imo, because those smalls would still have allowed their defenders to take the ball out with ease.

65 entries for a total of 9 goals into a congested forward line, providing no effort to keep the ground ball locked inside our 50. Harry and Kemp only kicked a goal each. Their job was to either mark or bring the ball to the ground. Same would be the case for Kennedy.

If we can't find a way to change the forward line modus operandi, we need to change the forward line. Simple as that, or our effort from up the ground will continue to be wasted.



65 entries is great if they're smart entries. How many were just high bombs to noone in particular, or to Motlop against two opponents?
On the seemingly few times that the ball was kicked to McKay in a one on one he'd then be outpointed handily by a kid.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2025
PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2025 11:17 am 
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Robert Walls
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When most of your 65 entries are shallow dump kicks to no one or to an outnumbered contest - that’s bad football

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2025
PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2025 11:21 am 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 10:17 pm
Posts: 2023
Wojee wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
Wojee wrote:
Have no issue in moving Owies on, Kennedy on the other hand offers versatility that we could've used last night when we looked impotent going forward.



OK, so a forwadline would have looked like Harry Kemp Kennedy Motlop Fogarty Evans Cottrell.
I don't think Kennedy would have made the difference to the result imo, because those smalls would still have allowed their defenders to take the ball out with ease.

65 entries for a total of 9 goals into a congested forward line, providing no effort to keep the ground ball locked inside our 50. Harry and Kemp only kicked a goal each. Their job was to either mark or bring the ball to the ground. Same would be the case for Kennedy.

If we can't find a way to change the forward line modus operandi, we need to change the forward line. Simple as that, or our effort from up the ground will continue to be wasted.



65 entries is great if they're smart entries. How many were just high bombs to noone in particular, or to Motlop against two opponents?
On the seemingly few times that the ball was kicked to McKay in a one on one he'd then be outpointed handily by a kid.


It’s been a problem since Voss has been coach. There is little overlap run to create space and smart forward 50 entries. More often than not, the ball carrier has no options but to kick to a contest. Either poor coaching or player decision making in the back half of the ground. In modern football you need to be able to create good forward 50 entries from your defensive line. Otherwise, opposition players simply peel back and clog our forward line.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2025
PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2025 11:57 am 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:36 am
Posts: 6311
Voss has 3 years and 4 preseasons
We haven’t progressed
We will win a few games but the squad can’t win a flag
Throw the kitchen sink at Roos to come and fix the culture and be part of appointing the best person for the job
Offer DeKoning a truck load that The Saints will match and we get around pick 6
Offload McKay get draft picks a perennial tease
Off load Walsh for draft picks Hard at it player but no explosive pace and injury prone
Sounds drastic but if we don’t do something drastic we can’t win a flag in the foreseeable future future
It frees up draft space
Look to the lower leagues rather than ex has been AFL players
Who would you rather have
Blight or Haynes?


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2025
PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2025 12:17 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 5:28 pm
Posts: 4903
keogh wrote:
Offer DeKoning a truck load that The Saints will match and we get around pick 6
Offload McKay get draft picks a perennial tease
Off load Walsh for draft picks Hard at it player but no explosive pace and injury prone

Agreed.
Also Weiters and Charlie won't be around when we next contest a flag so I'd consider putting them on the table.
It's sad that we are having this discussion so early in the season but it is now clear we just don't have the cattle.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2025
PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2025 5:40 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 8:42 pm
Posts: 2446
Location: Princess Park
Humpers wrote:
keogh wrote:
Offer DeKoning a truck load that The Saints will match and we get around pick 6
Offload McKay get draft picks a perennial tease
Off load Walsh for draft picks Hard at it player but no explosive pace and injury prone

Agreed.
Also Weiters and Charlie won't be around when we next contest a flag so I'd consider putting them on the table.
It's sad that we are having this discussion so early in the season but it is now clear we just don't have the cattle.


The only player I would shop around would be McKay, he's soft and will not stand up when the moment matters. He can't kick during the home and away season, imagine McKay in a final kicking for goal. HE got pushed around by 2 rookies last night, often falls to the ground and at least once per game he falls to the ground as if he's been shot.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2025
PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2025 6:38 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:36 am
Posts: 6311
Blue Vain wrote:
keogh wrote:
It’s a long season
The fact is we need to see an improvement on last year
This is Voss’ 4 th year
We were too easily scored against last year
You simply have to be in the top half dozen defensively to have any chance
That’s due to too many softies IMO
Over the course of of a full season they get found out
Personally I’m disappointed with the team we have fielded today
I would like to see Moir and Binns and Wilson given a real crack in the seniors to see what they can add


I agree with most of that but you cant really say we have too many "softies" and then bemoan Binns and Moir not being in the team. Neither have shown a real willingness to commit to the hard ball.
I like the balance of the team. Another tall defender and another ruck would have been nice with Harry being the solo key but we deal with what's available.


You were saying


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 Post subject: List Management 2025
PostPosted: Sat Mar 15, 2025 2:30 pm 
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Wayne Johnston
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Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2007 9:35 am
Posts: 8909
Location: Melbourne
18 year old kid for Freo has just kicked 4 goals in 6 minutes in his first game. Why do we NEVER seem to draft kids who make an immediate impact like this. Unless it’s a number 1 pick like Walsh


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2025
PostPosted: Sat Mar 15, 2025 2:34 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:36 am
Posts: 6311
jake_h03 wrote:
18 year old kid for Freo has just kicked 4 goals in 6 minutes in his first game. Why do we NEVER seem to draft kids who make an immediate impact like this. Unless it’s a number 1 pick like Walsh


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2025
PostPosted: Sat Mar 15, 2025 9:38 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:13 pm
Posts: 1133
Location: Narre Warren VIC
How Ironic, Matt Kenedy gets a full Game playing in the middle and He puts in a Blinder- Solid Game....YET we continued to Screw him up and not give him enough time in the middle to Shine....

What a bunch of Cluless Clowns our recruiters are! :banghead: :banghead:


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2025
PostPosted: Sat Mar 15, 2025 10:27 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 17935
keogh wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
keogh wrote:
It’s a long season
The fact is we need to see an improvement on last year
This is Voss’ 4 th year
We were too easily scored against last year
You simply have to be in the top half dozen defensively to have any chance
That’s due to too many softies IMO
Over the course of of a full season they get found out
Personally I’m disappointed with the team we have fielded today
I would like to see Moir and Binns and Wilson given a real crack in the seniors to see what they can add


I agree with most of that but you cant really say we have too many "softies" and then bemoan Binns and Moir not being in the team. Neither have shown a real willingness to commit to the hard ball.
I like the balance of the team. Another tall defender and another ruck would have been nice with Harry being the solo key but we deal with what's available.


You were saying


i'm not sure what your point is. :?
I said I agreed with most of your post but you whinged about playing too many soft players and proceeded to complain Binns and Moir didn't get a game. The last thing we needed Thursday night was more jittery players.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2025
PostPosted: Sat Mar 15, 2025 10:42 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2009 6:45 pm
Posts: 1754
Dodo27 wrote:
How Ironic, Matt Kenedy gets a full Game playing in the middle and He puts in a Blinder- Solid Game....YET we continued to Screw him up and not give him enough time in the middle to Shine....

What a bunch of Cluless Clowns our recruiters are! :banghead: :banghead:


Clueless Coach nothing to do with recruiting


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2025
PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2025 8:41 am 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:36 am
Posts: 6311
Blue Vain wrote:
keogh wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
keogh wrote:
It’s a long season
The fact is we need to see an improvement on last year
This is Voss’ 4 th year
We were too easily scored against last year
You simply have to be in the top half dozen defensively to have any chance
That’s due to too many softies IMO
Over the course of of a full season they get found out
Personally I’m disappointed with the team we have fielded today
I would like to see Moir and Binns and Wilson given a real crack in the seniors to see what they can add


I agree with most of that but you cant really say we have too many "softies" and then bemoan Binns and Moir not being in the team. Neither have shown a real willingness to commit to the hard ball.
I like the balance of the team. Another tall defender and another ruck would have been nice with Harry being the solo key but we deal with what's available.


You were saying


i'm not sure what your point is. :?
I said I agreed with most of your post but you whinged about playing too many soft players and proceeded to complain Binns and Moir didn't get a game. The last thing we needed Thursday night was more jittery players.


From what I have seen Binns and Moir are a bit harder than McGovern and Williams


Last edited by keogh on Sun Mar 16, 2025 8:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2025
PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2025 8:44 am 
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Craig Bradley
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Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:42 pm
Posts: 6859
watching houston light the place up last night was really tough to swallow. espesh for the fact we put all of eggs into the draft basket, which is currently out 12 months with an acl.


what i really don't understand is ... what the fk are we doing here? are we trying to win a flag this season? bcos if so, houston fits that profile better than anyone else we could have gotten to the club. or are we building for the future and chasing high draft picks?

just like our coaching - recruiting doesn't seem to have a clear identity and clear goals it wants to achieve.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2025
PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2025 8:54 am 
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Craig Bradley
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Joined: Sat May 21, 2005 5:15 pm
Posts: 7248
So Houston comes to Carlton... joins the long bomb party... Carlton supporters... Houston is cooked, waste of picks and money

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2025
PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2025 8:58 am 
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Bruce Doull
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Posts: 35643
Location: Half back flank
Braithy wrote:
watching houston light the place up last night was really tough to swallow.



Knew it wouldn't take you long Braithy :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2025
PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2025 9:06 am 
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Harry Vallence
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Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 5:18 pm
Posts: 1603
Location: Deep Blue Sea
Braithy wrote:
watching houston light the place up last night was really tough to swallow. espesh for the fact we put all of eggs into the draft basket, which is currently out 12 months with an acl.


what i really don't understand is ... what the fk are we doing here? are we trying to win a flag this season? bcos if so, houston fits that profile better than anyone else we could have gotten to the club. or are we building for the future and chasing high draft picks?

just like our coaching - recruiting doesn't seem to have a clear identity and clear goals it wants to achieve.


The Collingwood coach said go out and get players X, Y and Z
Our coach had no say. I'm sure he wanted Houston but Nick and Co knew better.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2025
PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2025 9:45 am 
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Ken Hunter

Joined: Thu May 11, 2006 6:11 pm
Posts: 14895
It really is depressing being a Carlton supporter.
Other clubs go out and improve their list each year and you could argue our list was better last year.
I know Smith going down with an ACL was not part of the plan but we put too much focus on getting one player. The sad thing is we do not have a first round pick this year and it could well be a pretty high one. Hawthorn must be laughing at the moment.
I watch with envy the young players at other clubs getting games and doing well. Our young players are either not good enough or not getting an opportunity.
How on earth has it come to this? I know it is only one game and maybe there is an overreaction but I was speechless after what I saw on Thursday night.
If TDK does take the money and run, and who could blame him if he does, we are stuffed.


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