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PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2024 9:38 am 
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Harry Vallence

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Wojee wrote:
Braithy wrote:
Wojee wrote:
Braithy wrote:
in the entire history of AFL/VFL no team has qualified for finals with a points against as bad as ours (bottom four -ranked 15th) let alone make a gf and win it.


Yet Carlton still has the 4th best percentage.
This season is bizarre, two wins between 2nd and 13th with just a handful of games to go.



i wonder why the comp is so close? are we finally seeing the parity they all talked about in the 90's when the draft was implemented for a more even playing field? did it really take 30 years to happen? or is this season just a one off?


We have teams that were supposed to be utter garbage pushing for the eight and last year's premier struggling to even make finals.
My feel is that it's a one off.

As an aside I think the mid-season change in HTB interpretation has probably hurt Carlton the most with our heavy reliance on strong but not quick midfielders. Cripps has been pinged multiple times despite getting a handball away under the new interpretation.


Agreed
Matt Kennedy has been slaughtered. He just needs to look in the balls direction to be pinged. Ridiculous rule change.
The only bloke who bothers to pick up the damn pill is the bloke pinged. It goes against everything they have been coached to do throughout their career.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2024 9:40 am 
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Bruce Doull
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How long before someone pops a shoulder with the way players are now grabbing an arm in the tackle to get the easy HTB?

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2024 10:27 am 
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Craig Bradley
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interesting convo with chris scott last night about it. coaches are now coaching to not get your hands on the ball first in a stoppage, wait for them to get it, tackle them and get the HTB free.

the whole game is cooked right now. brown was going off how the whole fabric of the game is under threat. he's not far from the truth, imo


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2024 10:27 am 
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Ken Hunter
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Agreed. Players are just twisting arms around now and basically chicken winging. They're still dangerous tackles, just in a different way.

Wojee wrote:
Braithy wrote:
Wojee wrote:
Braithy wrote:
in the entire history of AFL/VFL no team has qualified for finals with a points against as bad as ours (bottom four -ranked 15th) let alone make a gf and win it.


Yet Carlton still has the 4th best percentage.
This season is bizarre, two wins between 2nd and 13th with just a handful of games to go.



i wonder why the comp is so close? are we finally seeing the parity they all talked about in the 90's when the draft was implemented for a more even playing field? did it really take 30 years to happen? or is this season just a one off?


We have teams that were supposed to be utter garbage pushing for the eight and last year's premier struggling to even make finals.
My feel is that it's a one off.

As an aside I think the mid-season change in HTB interpretation has probably hurt Carlton the most with our heavy reliance on strong but not quick midfielders. Cripps has been pinged multiple times despite getting a handball away under the new interpretation.


I wonder if the double byes have any influence on the evenness.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2024 10:32 am 
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Craig Bradley
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Wojee wrote:
How long before someone pops a shoulder with the way players are now grabbing an arm in the tackle to get the easy HTB?


Yep , an upmarket version of the chicken wing sling .

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2024 10:34 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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The move of Elijah into the midfield is killing us.
He has attended 108 CBA for 6 Clearances and only had 4 post clearance take away
Averages about 1.1 stoppage Clearances
And to make matters even worse of all our midfield he has the lowest tackle numbers.

He is a silky player when he has time and space and there is a place in the team for him but it is not on ball as a midfield player

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2024 10:44 am 
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Craig Bradley
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i didn't see elijah in the midfield on the weekend?

i think they were using him as the outside runner when walsh, cripps/ hewett were in the middle?


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2024 11:42 am 
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Stephen Kernahan

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Elijah's been in the midfield rotation the past few weeks. I mentioned my concerns a couple of weeks ago. He's a classy finisher and good decision maker but he doesn't have the defensive accountability. I recall a centre bounce against GWS where he was next to Coniglio and ran off him as soon as the ball was bounced. Coniglio won the clearance with no one near him. Not good enough.
Our midfield operates best when they are brutal and accountable. IMHO that's why we were effective when our rucks were out last year. We had to man up and win the ball of the opposition.
IMHO Cripps liked Pitto in the team previously because he believes Pitto is more chance of getting the ball to him. But it's not about Cripps. It's about a functioning unit and winning games.
That's the bonus of TDK, he isn't a great tap ruckman yet but he provides ground support and an aerial presence around the ground.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2024 11:52 am 
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Craig Bradley
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exactly, re cripps. there was media around voss in a presser saying cripps has been into him about getting pittonet in the team

like you say ... it's not about him, its about the team. charlie has been playing for himself and his coleman for a while now. for a team who isn't the fastest or most skilled; our advantage was we were sacrificing personal goals and glory for the better of team success.

i think these last 2 weeks (losses) we've strayed too far from that team ethos, and we're being lit up bcos of it.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2024 1:48 pm 
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John Nicholls

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Braithy wrote:
exactly, re cripps. there was media around voss in a presser saying cripps has been into him about getting pittonet in the team

like you say ... it's not about him, its about the team. charlie has been playing for himself and his coleman for a while now. for a team who isn't the fastest or most skilled; our advantage was we were sacrificing personal goals and glory for the better of team success.

i think these last 2 weeks (losses) we've strayed too far from that team ethos, and we're being lit up bcos of it.


I think you’re taking it a bit far. Anyway, if selfishness gives Charlie ten shots on goal every game I’m all for it.

I think one of the reasons we’re being smashed at clearances is not because of selfishness, it’s because of rule changes. Our game (and Pittos game) is built on first use of the ball, but the rules now favour being second to the ball and we haven’t adjusted.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2024 2:33 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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sinbagger wrote:
Braithy wrote:
exactly, re cripps. there was media around voss in a presser saying cripps has been into him about getting pittonet in the team

like you say ... it's not about him, its about the team. charlie has been playing for himself and his coleman for a while now. for a team who isn't the fastest or most skilled; our advantage was we were sacrificing personal goals and glory for the better of team success.

i think these last 2 weeks (losses) we've strayed too far from that team ethos, and we're being lit up bcos of it.


I think you’re taking it a bit far. Anyway, if selfishness gives Charlie ten shots on goal every game I’m all for it.

I think one of the reasons we’re being smashed at clearances is not because of selfishness, it’s because of rule changes. Our game (and Pittos game) is built on first use of the ball, but the rules now favour being second to the ball and we haven’t adjusted.



charlie played a bit more selflessly on the weekend. also helped, that his opponent was 5'11 and not very strong.


but his 2nd efforts and chasing and tackling for most of the season has been super selfish. i'm starting to wonder if your eyes are actually painted on


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2024 2:34 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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We allowed the bulldogs to put an extra at stoppage nearly all game and we still didn't take a defensive mindset to any of it.

Of course they either scored easily in our D50 from stoppage, or broke away for easy inside 50 in general play from stoppage.

We were actually pathetic.

Hewett is a must to return immediately and we only need 1 ruck.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2024 3:41 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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I'm looking forward to seeing a few absolutely necessary tweaks to the side against North.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2024 10:28 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2013 7:59 pm
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jake_h03 wrote:
Jono182 wrote:
Had a week to work out why and how to stop teams slapping us like a really nice bopty around stoppages… and there was no change!!

Yep the stats say we won stoppages but they scored from them.

Questions about this team.

Lots.


Yeah, maybe play Hewett, the guy who was an integral part of the midfield group when we were playing our best footy, and don’t play 2 rucks when our record is 2-4 for the season with 2 rucks

It ain’t @#$%&! complicated


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the player we recruited specifically so the inside mid work wasn’t all on Crippa and to offer the Captain the occasional chop out. Ditto Kennedy to lesser extent.

I understand rushing Cerra back but he’s clearly not found his top form or anything close to it yet, dropping both Kennedy and Hewitt thinking Cerra has it covered against the Dogs and GWS midfields was blind in hindsight. Wishful thinking or arrogance.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2024 12:24 am 
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John Nicholls

Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 12:18 pm
Posts: 9566
Location: Australia
Braithy wrote:
sinbagger wrote:
Braithy wrote:
exactly, re cripps. there was media around voss in a presser saying cripps has been into him about getting pittonet in the team

like you say ... it's not about him, its about the team. charlie has been playing for himself and his coleman for a while now. for a team who isn't the fastest or most skilled; our advantage was we were sacrificing personal goals and glory for the better of team success.

i think these last 2 weeks (losses) we've strayed too far from that team ethos, and we're being lit up bcos of it.


I think you’re taking it a bit far. Anyway, if selfishness gives Charlie ten shots on goal every game I’m all for it.

I think one of the reasons we’re being smashed at clearances is not because of selfishness, it’s because of rule changes. Our game (and Pittos game) is built on first use of the ball, but the rules now favour being second to the ball and we haven’t adjusted.



charlie played a bit more selflessly on the weekend. also helped, that his opponent was 5'11 and not very strong.


but his 2nd efforts and chasing and tackling for most of the season has been super selfish. i'm starting to wonder if your eyes are actually painted on


Well, you said the team has been too selfish the last two weeks and highlighted Charlie, but now you say he was ok this week but it was actually the rest of the season you were talking about?

Is your brain actually painted on?


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2024 6:04 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 2:15 pm
Posts: 21376
Location: North of the border
sinbagger wrote:
Braithy wrote:
sinbagger wrote:
Braithy wrote:
exactly, re cripps. there was media around voss in a presser saying cripps has been into him about getting pittonet in the team

like you say ... it's not about him, its about the team. charlie has been playing for himself and his coleman for a while now. for a team who isn't the fastest or most skilled; our advantage was we were sacrificing personal goals and glory for the better of team success.

i think these last 2 weeks (losses) we've strayed too far from that team ethos, and we're being lit up bcos of it.


I think you’re taking it a bit far. Anyway, if selfishness gives Charlie ten shots on goal every game I’m all for it.

I think one of the reasons we’re being smashed at clearances is not because of selfishness, it’s because of rule changes. Our game (and Pittos game) is built on first use of the ball, but the rules now favour being second to the ball and we haven’t adjusted.



charlie played a bit more selflessly on the weekend. also helped, that his opponent was 5'11 and not very strong.


but his 2nd efforts and chasing and tackling for most of the season has been super selfish. i'm starting to wonder if your eyes are actually painted on


Well, you said the team has been too selfish the last two weeks and highlighted Charlie, but now you say he was ok this week but it was actually the rest of the season you were talking about?

Is your brain actually painted on?
Luke Hodge did something on the big forwards bombing from outside 50.
Daniher is going at 19%
Harry at 21% but he is less likely to wheel and go more a set shot
Charlie at 23%

He drew the comparison of a midfielder running out of the middle and ignoring the leads of forwards and how annoying it was for forwards particularly when they miss so why should it be different if a midfielder runs forward into space and is ignored by the big forwards.

He has a valid point

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2024 8:00 am 
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Craig Bradley
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sinbagger wrote:
Braithy wrote:
sinbagger wrote:
Braithy wrote:
exactly, re cripps. there was media around voss in a presser saying cripps has been into him about getting pittonet in the team

like you say ... it's not about him, its about the team. charlie has been playing for himself and his coleman for a while now. for a team who isn't the fastest or most skilled; our advantage was we were sacrificing personal goals and glory for the better of team success.

i think these last 2 weeks (losses) we've strayed too far from that team ethos, and we're being lit up bcos of it.


I think you’re taking it a bit far. Anyway, if selfishness gives Charlie ten shots on goal every game I’m all for it.

I think one of the reasons we’re being smashed at clearances is not because of selfishness, it’s because of rule changes. Our game (and Pittos game) is built on first use of the ball, but the rules now favour being second to the ball and we haven’t adjusted.



charlie played a bit more selflessly on the weekend. also helped, that his opponent was 5'11 and not very strong.


but his 2nd efforts and chasing and tackling for most of the season has been super selfish. i'm starting to wonder if your eyes are actually painted on


Well, you said the team has been too selfish the last two weeks and highlighted Charlie, but now you say he was ok this week but it was actually the rest of the season you were talking about?

Is your brain actually painted on?


lol ... you're incredible. and not in a good way. you would argue black was white. it's so tiresome. :roll:


the mids have been selfish, and charlie too. charlie has been really poor this year. i've lost count of the times he's completely given up on a play after he drops a mark (or is fouled) and the ball is still in contest.

he gets blasted in the media, gets a favourable match up and gets 10 shots on goal. a complete outlier on his season. you have to go back to last year for the last time he had 10 shots on goal.

after the finals he had last year, i guess i was expecting more from him, but at times he only seems to care about his coleman.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2024 9:03 am 
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Bruce Doull
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Braithy wrote:
after the finals he had last year, i guess i was expecting more from him, but at times he only seems to care about his coleman.


I don't understand this sentiment about Curnow, what makes you say he seems to only seems to care about his Coleman?

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2024 9:35 am 
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John Nicholls

Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 12:18 pm
Posts: 9566
Location: Australia
Braithy wrote:
sinbagger wrote:
Braithy wrote:
sinbagger wrote:
Braithy wrote:
exactly, re cripps. there was media around voss in a presser saying cripps has been into him about getting pittonet in the team

like you say ... it's not about him, its about the team. charlie has been playing for himself and his coleman for a while now. for a team who isn't the fastest or most skilled; our advantage was we were sacrificing personal goals and glory for the better of team success.

i think these last 2 weeks (losses) we've strayed too far from that team ethos, and we're being lit up bcos of it.


I think you’re taking it a bit far. Anyway, if selfishness gives Charlie ten shots on goal every game I’m all for it.

I think one of the reasons we’re being smashed at clearances is not because of selfishness, it’s because of rule changes. Our game (and Pittos game) is built on first use of the ball, but the rules now favour being second to the ball and we haven’t adjusted.



charlie played a bit more selflessly on the weekend. also helped, that his opponent was 5'11 and not very strong.


but his 2nd efforts and chasing and tackling for most of the season has been super selfish. i'm starting to wonder if your eyes are actually painted on


Well, you said the team has been too selfish the last two weeks and highlighted Charlie, but now you say he was ok this week but it was actually the rest of the season you were talking about?

Is your brain actually painted on?


lol ... you're incredible. and not in a good way. you would argue black was white. it's so tiresome. :roll:


the mids have been selfish, and charlie too. charlie has been really poor this year. i've lost count of the times he's completely given up on a play after he drops a mark (or is fouled) and the ball is still in contest.

he gets blasted in the media, gets a favourable match up and gets 10 shots on goal. a complete outlier on his season. you have to go back to last year for the last time he had 10 shots on goal.

after the finals he had last year, i guess i was expecting more from him, but at times he only seems to care about his coleman.


I see you ignored my evidence that you keep changing your mind.

Look! Squirrel!


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2024 10:03 am 
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Craig Bradley
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Wojee wrote:
Braithy wrote:
after the finals he had last year, i guess i was expecting more from him, but at times he only seems to care about his coleman.


I don't understand this sentiment about Curnow, what makes you say he seems to only seems to care about his Coleman?


Good question .

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