To Gibbs or not to Gibbs (signed for 5yrs, p4)

redback · **Joined:** Wed Sep 21, 2011 3:17 pm **Posts:** 2645

Goltzenberg wrote:

Not sure why people are upset.
He has spent his first few years at the club as a back pocket, tagger and half back flank role.
First year he has had a crack in the mid field consistently and surely leading the BnF currently.

Whether it was 3 or 5 years is irrelevant. He is going to be playing at a high level for the next 5 years and we should be thanking him for not taking 700k plus at other clubs. Good Carlton Lad!!

I keep reading posts about this being the wrong decision for the club. A lot of criticism about bottoming out and regenerating the list. I think people have short memories. Before we got Judd, we had no leadership at the club, we were a bunch of kids with no senior players to really guide the players or to follow the way you should train and apply yourself. We had Fevola for off field training though, but not really on field. Now, Gibb's aint Judd, no body is in his class. But, l'm sure Gibbs and Murphy will continue those good traits that Judd would of demonstrated and they will pass that on to the younger brigade in years to come. If you have no leaders at the club, you end up like the Melbourne Demons the last few years with all the draft picks in the world, but no discipline, direction and left in the wilderness. I'm sure a lot of Melbourne's draft picks would of been a lot better at other clubs with better leadership and systems in place.

Anyone that really wanted Gibbs to be traded for a top 10 pick is basically saying, lets clean out our list and accumulate draft picks like Melbourne with no leadership's and collect wooden spoons. Melbourne has done that, Richmond has done that for last 20 years but doesn't really seem like winning formula. I think if you keep solid leaders at a club and fill holes around them with a better coaching model is a more effective way to go about it. Hawks have done that with their core group and so have Geelong. The game has changed that much in the last few years that you primarily just need athletes that can kick, mark and handball with quick pace in the midfield. All you need is a couple KPP in the back and forward half and runners for the rest with a quality coaching system (presently we do not have one). Midfielders are dime a dozen now and l don't think you need a top 10 player to be a complimentary mid field option for a core midfield of Murphy, Gibbs, Thomas etc. Top 10 pick doesnt guarantee you a elite player, there is just as much chance that a pick 20 or pick 30 player will be a gun. Just need a bit of luck at the draft to read potential. Sure if you get a top 5 pick you could get a Selwood or Pendlebury, but there is no guarantees. Yarran was pick 7 and Docherty was pick 11 or 12 with Brisbane, which are just good average players. Jack Watts would be lucky to go pick 20 if the draft was done now.

As a Carlton member, if the direction is to collect spoons, l will do a synbad and not be a member. It is a losers attitude. The club will naturally regenerate the list with the retirements of about 10+ players in the next 2-3 years. Clubs typically make 6-8 changes a season, no need to do anything too drastic to save Malthouse's legacy. You need to keep quality players at the club, unless your offered a trade you can't refuse.

Well done to Gibbsy. #4

very good point and a extremely logical post :clap:

moshe25 · **Joined:** Wed May 11, 2005 1:23 am **Posts:** 11671

camelboy wrote:

keogh wrote:

Dane everyone with half a brain sell knows

you never give anyone a five year deal never
Unless a club is run by morons

Will this join rapted and sakced in the TC lexicon? :lol:

I'd be guttered if it didn't.

moshe25 · **Joined:** Wed May 11, 2005 1:23 am **Posts:** 11671

redback wrote:

Goltzenberg wrote:

Not sure why people are upset.
He has spent his first few years at the club as a back pocket, tagger and half back flank role.
First year he has had a crack in the mid field consistently and surely leading the BnF currently.

Whether it was 3 or 5 years is irrelevant. He is going to be playing at a high level for the next 5 years and we should be thanking him for not taking 700k plus at other clubs. Good Carlton Lad!!

I keep reading posts about this being the wrong decision for the club. A lot of criticism about bottoming out and regenerating the list. I think people have short memories. Before we got Judd, we had no leadership at the club, we were a bunch of kids with no senior players to really guide the players or to follow the way you should train and apply yourself. We had Fevola for off field training though, but not really on field. Now, Gibb's aint Judd, no body is in his class. But, l'm sure Gibbs and Murphy will continue those good traits that Judd would of demonstrated and they will pass that on to the younger brigade in years to come. If you have no leaders at the club, you end up like the Melbourne Demons the last few years with all the draft picks in the world, but no discipline, direction and left in the wilderness. I'm sure a lot of Melbourne's draft picks would of been a lot better at other clubs with better leadership and systems in place.

Anyone that really wanted Gibbs to be traded for a top 10 pick is basically saying, lets clean out our list and accumulate draft picks like Melbourne with no leadership's and collect wooden spoons. Melbourne has done that, Richmond has done that for last 20 years but doesn't really seem like winning formula. I think if you keep solid leaders at a club and fill holes around them with a better coaching model is a more effective way to go about it. Hawks have done that with their core group and so have Geelong. The game has changed that much in the last few years that you primarily just need athletes that can kick, mark and handball with quick pace in the midfield. All you need is a couple KPP in the back and forward half and runners for the rest with a quality coaching system (presently we do not have one). Midfielders are dime a dozen now and l don't think you need a top 10 player to be a complimentary mid field option for a core midfield of Murphy, Gibbs, Thomas etc. Top 10 pick doesnt guarantee you a elite player, there is just as much chance that a pick 20 or pick 30 player will be a gun. Just need a bit of luck at the draft to read potential. Sure if you get a top 5 pick you could get a Selwood or Pendlebury, but there is no guarantees. Yarran was pick 7 and Docherty was pick 11 or 12 with Brisbane, which are just good average players. Jack Watts would be lucky to go pick 20 if the draft was done now.

As a Carlton member, if the direction is to collect spoons, l will do a synbad and not be a member. It is a losers attitude. The club will naturally regenerate the list with the retirements of about 10+ players in the next 2-3 years. Clubs typically make 6-8 changes a season, no need to do anything too drastic to save Malthouse's legacy. You need to keep quality players at the club, unless your offered a trade you can't refuse.

Well done to Gibbsy. #4

very good point and a extremely logical post :clap:

Yes, I can imagine that it would seem logical to you.

dane · **Joined:** Tue Mar 08, 2005 10:14 am **Posts:** 22357

moshe25 wrote:

camelboy wrote:

keogh wrote:

Dane everyone with half a brain sell knows

you never give anyone a five year deal never
Unless a club is run by morons

Will this join rapted and sakced in the TC lexicon? :lol:

I'd be guttered if it didn't.

Big Kahuna Boot · **Posted:** Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:58 am

..bargain!!, yes I understand the free agency compo pick angle, but honestly I don't see that extra pick making a difference.. ..it is basically Gibbs for a top ten pick.. ..it doesn't help, unless we go full rebuild and gut the entire list and start from scratch, and we just won't do that..

Synbad · **Posted:** Wed Jun 25, 2014 12:03 pm

Good move.
We will be essentially bringing in another player through the free agents stream
Meaning we wouldnt have got a pick for Gibbs...

Essentially meaning we would get a player and lose a player ....

camel · **Posted:** Wed Jun 25, 2014 12:33 pm

moshe25 wrote:

camelboy wrote:

keogh wrote:

Dane everyone with half a brain sell knows

you never give anyone a five year deal never
Unless a club is run by morons

Will this join rapted and sakced in the TC lexicon? :lol:

I'd be guttered if it didn't.

Thanks, I knew there was another gem I was missing. :thumbsup:

bluegirl72 · **Joined:** Sat May 23, 2009 8:30 pm **Posts:** 23921

camelboy wrote:

moshe25 wrote:

camelboy wrote:

keogh wrote:

Dane everyone with half a brain sell knows

you never give anyone a five year deal never
Unless a club is run by morons

Will this join rapted and sakced in the TC lexicon? :lol:

I'd be guttered if it didn't.

Thanks, I knew there was another gem I was misTing. :thumbsup:

efa

emtwenty · **Joined:** Sun Nov 18, 2012 3:29 pm **Posts:** 7074

Synbad wrote:

Good move.
We will be essentially bringing in another player through the free agents stream
Meaning we wouldnt have got a pick for Gibbs...

Essentially meaning we would get a player and lose a player ....

Are you saying we are getting a free agent this year? Only one with any value is Frawley and I can't see him picking us over hawthorn Geelong or freo.

THIRIODIS · **Posted:** Wed Jun 25, 2014 1:22 pm

emtwenty wrote:

Synbad wrote:

Good move.
We will be essentially bringing in another player through the free agents stream
Meaning we wouldnt have got a pick for Gibbs...

Essentially meaning we would get a player and lose a player ....

Are you saying we are getting a free agent this year? Only one with any value is Frawley and I can't see him picking us over hawthorn Geelong or freo.

hmmmm .... Mundy? Goldsack?

sstormin123 · **Posted:** Wed Jun 25, 2014 1:32 pm

If we get Goldsack ill spew.

He is the, most overrated, supposedly underrated player in the league.

Average player who is playing his role out of his socks. His job is to apply pressure and if lucky sneak a goal or two. Fits collingwoods system beautifully, wouldn't be much chop here

kezza · **Joined:** Thu May 11, 2006 6:11 pm **Posts:** 14986

Synbad wrote:

Good move.
We will be essentially bringing in another player through the free agents stream
Meaning we wouldnt have got a pick for Gibbs...

Essentially meaning we would get a player and lose a player ....

Good point, if Gibbs had left it would have restricted us in chasing a free agent.
We may not get one anyway but at least we can now see who is out there, Frawley?
I am pleased that Gibbs re-signed, he is one the best players at the club. On current form he would be in AA contention.
Shows a lot about his character.

Synbad · **Posted:** Wed Jun 25, 2014 1:59 pm

emtwenty wrote:

Synbad wrote:

Good move.
We will be essentially bringing in another player through the free agents stream
Meaning we wouldnt have got a pick for Gibbs...

Essentially meaning we would get a player and lose a player ....

Are you saying we are getting a free agent this year? Only one with any value is Frawley and I can't see him picking us over hawthorn Geelong or freo.

yeah they would be earmarking players
might not be a star but definitely somebody that we can use to help our list

id say we will be making a few trades and signings

Cretylus · **Posted:** Wed Jun 25, 2014 2:18 pm

Synbad wrote:

emtwenty wrote:

Synbad wrote:

Good move.
We will be essentially bringing in another player through the free agents stream
Meaning we wouldnt have got a pick for Gibbs...

Essentially meaning we would get a player and lose a player ....

Are you saying we are getting a free agent this year? Only one with any value is Frawley and I can't see him picking us over hawthorn Geelong or freo.

yeah they would be earmarking players
might not be a star but definitely somebody that we can use to help our list

id say we will be making a few trades and signings

Hinkley didn't do many signings or trades when he took over in 2012. He just asked the players to train hard because he has a very exciting and rewarding game plan for them to follow at the start of 2013.

Don't you remember? Hinkley won his first 5 games in 2013, port made the finals off their own steam, beat the pies in melbourne, almost beat the cats the following week in melbourne again.

And Hinkley ended up the AFL coaches Association coach of the year whilst being paid in the bottom 3 in the AFL and having one of the lowest footy department budgets in the league.

And in his first draft he said he was surprised Oli Wines lasted until pick 7, and was wrapped to pick him up. Had no choice but to snare wines with pick 7.

Meanwhile Mick was running around Arizona singing the carlton song because they climbed a low mountain, planning sausage sizzles, desperately begging Swann to recruit his son to the club from collingwood. And easy job for for the great Swan who is an expert at relocating collingwood staff and players to his current place of employment.

Yes ladies and gentlemen let's build a super team around Daisy, Docherty, Everritt and Wood, and save Micks job and Wiley's and the brilliant Green, until the year 2022 where we should have a shot at making the top 4.

[FRYBIE]

Synbad · **Posted:** Wed Jun 25, 2014 2:36 pm

no he didnt... because he had an up and coming list ladies and gentlemen...
im hoping for goldsack....

::)

woof · **Joined:** Thu Mar 02, 2006 9:51 am **Posts:** 4919

Some facts about Port Adelaide at the time;

http://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/nothin ... 6567303294

Synbad · **Posted:** Wed Jun 25, 2014 3:08 pm

yeah cret wont read that.. he will be ignoring it and telling us about ladies and gentlemen

they are ranked around eight with a bullet

3rd youngest list... means they will improve

back then wingard was a first year player... lobbe was second (i think)
and a few others were sparkles in a recruiters eye

done a good job has port

still cret and tony shaw plus ratts will tell you they didnt have a list 2 years ago.... and hinkley waved his magoc wand...

Braithy · **Joined:** Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:42 pm **Posts:** 7175

Synbad wrote:

Good move.
We will be essentially bringing in another player through the free agents stream
Meaning we wouldnt have got a pick for Gibbs...

Essentially meaning we would get a player and lose a player ....

This.

Lace Out · **Posted:** Wed Jun 25, 2014 3:38 pm

Synbad wrote:

no he didnt... because he had an up and coming list ladies and gentlemen...
im hoping for goldsack....

::)

goldsack from collingwood?

not another collingwood block!!

padre · **Joined:** Mon Jan 05, 2009 7:56 pm **Posts:** 934

Wake up. We should never entertain the idea of letting go a player of BG calibre. Just when he is finally starting to flourish? It would be stupidity of the highest order. Highly skilled, durable, able to play in multiple positions.....
Sure we could get a fa compensation pick but the odds of the new guy coming in and matching GB in performance is not high. And we would lose all that fitness base the he has.
Leadership. We need leaders. BG and murphy and thomas are a good start. Hopefully judd keeps playing for another 3 years as a forward. Curnow to show how to gut run and train. Buckley has shown real dedication and desire. There is a core leadership. But it needed BG in it.
Trading. You just dont trade players that you need. We were moaning about Betts being traded, but betts is a highly skilled small forward. He cant play all over the ground like gibbs. His role was too specific. And we would have had to pay overs...you dont do that for one dimensional players.
You do trade players that have currency and that you have replacements for. One of kreuzer or warnock should go at year end. We should then live with the choice, and revel in the fact that we have gained another top player in exchange , that fills a need.

The clock. I prefer to remain positive. I am not a "no hoper" like synbad and co . Sure we have some challenges, just like the other 12 clubs in a similar situation as us...in no mans land. If we say that we should have let gibbs go because we need to rebuild, then we are conceding that we are unable to add enough players to our core group to get to say 16 top performing players ( i always feel that the last 4-6 players in your team are what defines you, more than your stars) also in a top side those last 4-6 players are made to look much better due to the talent around them. Beware the trade that comes from a top side.
How far are we from a core 16 in the next 3 years?

1 murphy
2 gibbs
3 simpson ( no reason he cant keep playing)
4 thomas
5 judd(imo will keep playing but in an altered role)
6 walker
7 curnow (elite gut runner)
8 yarran
9 buckley
10 kreuzer/warnock (one of stays the other is trade)
11 jamieson
12 henderson (when not playing injured)
13 docherty
14 menzel
15 cripps ( with reservations)
16 replacement for kreuzer/warnock trade
17 first round draft pick end of 2014
18 big name recruit end of 2014 using either fa or $ freed up to attract

I have left out the following
1 waite. He is a show pony. If we can use as trade bait we should do so.
2 carrazo. Is not going to last three more years
3 garlett. Not good enough atm. He is one of the 4-6... Looks good with a betts beside him.
4 robinson. Love his endeavour and aggression. Needs to work on disposal, which he is doing
5 mcLean will retire
6 casboult/rowe. I am hoping that out of the ashes at least one of these guys takes the next step. But i like to be conservative.
7 white -is showing some good signs. Is a real goer. Probably a 4-6 player
8 tuohy. A mystery to me . Showed great signs last year but this year has been found out. A 4-6 player
9 armfield. Love his pace and effort. A 4-6 player
10 bell. Love his aggression and hardness . Is really working on his fitness and i am hopeful that he could take the next step.
11 ellard . Maybe a 4-6 player as a defensive forward
12 everitt. Potentially in the core 16 . We need to define his role. Atm is being tried everywhere.
13 lucas. Could potentially be a 4-6 player. Definitely has flashes of good football in him, but his defensive side needs work. Trade?
14 watson. I think his opinion of himself is much greater than his ability
15 mcinnes. Not sure. Would like to think he is in 4-6.

Are we really that far away?

To Gibbs or not to Gibbs (signed for 5yrs, p4)

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