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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 2:26 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Sun May 22, 2005 11:58 pm
Posts: 4058
Location: South Yarra
Synbad wrote:
SurreyBlue wrote:
We need to realise however that we are as strong as we are because these families are part of our culture and without them we would be just another club, ie. StKilda. These business men by the way did not succeed because they are idiots or did not make us the CFC we are because they don't know what they are doing! Supporters like us put our thoughts forward but at the end of the day we know JACK compared to these guys.
If people want to be insignificant again, then put a ticket together and challenge! A ticket consisting of people outside the "circle of trust" if you prefer as we did previously but be prepared to watch us die a slow but wonderful death at Etihad under AFL control!

"whats a circle of trust"????

define what u mean in our case and give us examples

u mean trust excluding everyboy else???? :yikes:


Circle jerk


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 2:32 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Sticks is in the middle...

can u beieve surrey talks about keeping the circle of trust intact???

lets not do anything different.. were flying!!!! :lol:

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 2:32 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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The impending "RADICAL" changes to the list confirm a monumental failure by the decision makers at Carlton.

There is absolutely no escaping it.

The BluePrint is now nothing more than a misprint.

Where is the accountability for those who produced The BluePrint ????????????????

An utter failure.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 2:38 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Rexy wrote:
The impending "RADICAL" changes to the list confirm a monumental failure by the decision makers at Carlton.

There is absolutely no escaping it.

The BluePrint is now nothing more than a misprint.

Where is the accountability for those who produced The BluePrint ????????????????

An utter failure.

blueprint is for people to get excited and keep buying memberships... has nothing to do with the reality of the club...

its more dshonesty

its why surrey and club dont criticise the club... only people like malthouse..

ratts was good even if this list is his and everyone is signed up

sticks said 3 flags in 5 years... we didnt get those. its malthouses fault... he was the last one in the door... :lol:

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 3:17 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 18016
Rexy wrote:
The impending "RADICAL" changes to the list confirm a monumental failure by the decision makers at Carlton.

There is absolutely no escaping it.

The BluePrint is now nothing more than a misprint.

Where is the accountability for those who produced The BluePrint ????????????????

An utter failure.



The whole episode confirms a monumental failure.
Including the signing of a replacement coach. We should have initiated an external review to assess the board, administration AND the football department. Not just the personnel but the structure.
Then they should have interviewed applicants based on the outcomes.

Whats the point of agreeing to a relationship with a coach when the whole structure of the football department may be turned upside down. The review should have taken place mid-last season at the latest.

What if the review comes back and tells us we require a list manager with powers to override the coach? What if it tells us our football manager is a lame duck and we require a stronger personality with increased responsibilities? What if the job descriptions for assistant coaches are beefed up and the incumbents dont meet the standards?

More payouts?
The shitfight is the same. Just different names.
Getting in different people doesn't change a lot when they're still working within the same impotent structure.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 3:20 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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BV i agree with all that...!!!!

until this club becomes honest with itself.. and the people that support it... were not going anwyehere

i dont see how the players will give an honest account of themselves when the club cant give an honest account of itself at the top....

ultimately it s a spin cycle...!!!

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 5:19 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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Dominator_7 wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:

..and yet the shit coach had better results with the same players?

Go figure. :screwy:
Did Bruce have the reasons for that from his birds eye view in Queensland?


Wins of the back of Judd and (in 2008-2009) Fev at their peak.
Ratten could only build one story of a two story house. He couldn't take the list that extra step.
He was given FIVE YEARS. Given the facitities. Given the players he asked for, and he couldn't do it.

He let the players be downhill skiers, which allowed us to play pretty football when it clicked, but meant we were sliced apart when it didn't. We were never going to be Top 4 or go anywhere near a Flag with that sort of footy (even when we finished 5th, we were still 2 and a half games off Top 4). That's why we always crashed and burnt in the heat of Finals.
In the end, when things weren't going to plan, he had no answers. He began lashing out at players and off field staff. He'd lost the plot. He'd run his race.
Teams like Hawthorn, Geelong and Collingwood can put on the 'razzle dazzle', but can also smash you into the turf if they have to. That's why they ve stayed a the top for so long. Its a mindset we re so far away from its not funny.
They ve had 5 years on unaccountable footy. MM has to teach the players to 'walk again'. He knows what it takes to win a flag. He's building for the top, not just aiming to sneak into the Top 8 and say 'look at us. we made the Finals' like Ratten did..
If that means taking a step back this year, to take strides forward thereafter, so be it.

Nicely put... seems to me that defending Ratts coincides with hating Malthouse.

But deep down inside, you can't seriously defend where the last five years have left us going forward.

Ratts had to go... there is no doubt about that... but others need to follow if we're serious.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 5:23 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 9:35 am
Posts: 2125
Rexy wrote:
The impending "RADICAL" changes to the list confirm a monumental failure by the decision makers at Carlton.

There is absolutely no escaping it.

The BluePrint is now nothing more than a misprint.

Where is the accountability for those who produced The BluePrint ????????????????

An utter failure.


Spot on Rexy. Swann was integral in the appointment of Ratts without any due diligence, he has lots of opinions on players. He is a CEO not a football mngr, maybe time for a new CEO. How many of our committee genuinely understand footy and footy clubs. Committee persons need to be more than ruthless business types who think you can buy and sell people. All the talent comes from the draft, we need to be the best at that and be patient otherwise we are destined to seek expensive quick fixes that take us nowhere. Does Jeannie Pratt and Ralph Gemineder really love the club and know heaps about footy, what about the others?

And the idea of swapping Big K and others for Tom Boyd! We had a developing power fwd and chose to swap him in preference to giving WCE the #1 pick because we judged Big K to be a more important player for us. We were wrong, and we can be wrong again. What if Boyd is Gumbleton or Livingston instead of Brown or Riewoldt, and no maytyer how talented he is he will take some years, and kids in the U18s who are 100kgs are very hard to judge. Its the Anthony Banik factor.

Our drafting has been on best talent, but maybe we should broaden our definition of talent to include leadership and toughness. Case in point Yarran is a rolls royce and happy to have him there, it is up to our highly paid coach Pagan...no Malthouse... to get the best out of him. But a Ziebell is much more what we needed when we drafted Yarran.

Was FSF talking about us or Gatsby:
"CFC believed in the green light, the orgiastic future that year by year recedes before us. It eluded us then, but that's no matter--tomorrow we will run faster, stretch out our arms farther.... And one fine morning-- So we beat on, boats against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past."


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 7:33 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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I want see a ticket put together by Synbad.
I hear your a decent business man and you certainly show your football knowledge within TC.
So please put a ticket together with your vision and announce it to everyone for discussion.
You never know we might even take it further and challenge Sticks. I'm sure you will be all for that.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 7:50 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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SurreyBlue wrote:
I want see a ticket put together by Synbad.
I hear your a decent business man and you certainly show your football knowledge within TC.
So please put a ticket together with your vision and announce it to everyone for discussion.
You never know we might even take it further and challenge Sticks. I'm sure you will be all for that.



no i have my own ways surrey... :wink: :thumbsup:

dont you worry about a thing old boy... ill rescue you too!!!....i wont leave them running the club into the ground and you coming on here taling about princes park... and women bleeding .. and circles of trust.. and how you have been let down...how the afl kill us and were too weak to stand up to them surrey... dont you worry about a thing... ill save your life.

thanks for the advice ....but i think i can manage without your senator richardson powerbroking help from the shadows..

ok???

love the support and the comfort you give me... but its ok.. no advice from you thanks... :lol:

Good to know a real heavyweight supporter businessman like you is in my corner anyway....

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 8:06 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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Synbad wrote:
SurreyBlue wrote:
I want see a ticket put together by Synbad.
I hear your a decent business man and you certainly show your football knowledge within TC.
So please put a ticket together with your vision and announce it to everyone for discussion.
You never know we might even take it further and challenge Sticks. I'm sure you will be all for that.



no i have my own ways surrey... :wink: :thumbsup:

...


Hmmmmmm.... :lol:


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 8:11 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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Posts: 7354
Rexy wrote:
The BluePrint is now nothing more than a misprint.

That's sig-worthy :lol:

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 8:15 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Posts: 33188
Location: In the box.
SurreyBlue wrote:
Synbad wrote:
SurreyBlue wrote:
I want see a ticket put together by Synbad.
I hear your a decent business man and you certainly show your football knowledge within TC.
So please put a ticket together with your vision and announce it to everyone for discussion.
You never know we might even take it further and challenge Sticks. I'm sure you will be all for that.



no i have my own ways surrey... :wink: :thumbsup:

...


Hmmmmmm.... :lol:



surrey.... im like sticks.. i come to save you... but then ill be a tyrant too...and do all kinds of horri be things to u surrey.. you shouldnt enjoy those horrid things.. but i have a sneaky suspicion you might...youll learn to support me too surrey. ... as crap as i am... u will fall under my spell...
the club will fall to pieces surrey...ill grind it to dust... il make fuckked up decision after [REDACTED] up decision...
but it wont matter....i know youll defend me surrey.

dont worry about a thing... its all under control....

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 8:23 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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Posts: 10569
I'm sure Sticks and comp. are shaking in their boots .....


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 8:38 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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SurreyBlue wrote:
I'm sure Sticks and comp. are shaking in their boots .....

they are surrey... thats why they wont have a review thats independent

wheres sticks??

do you see him anywhere out and about all chuffed???

see him heralding his results???

hes in the bunker surrrrrreyyyyy!!.. hes hiding...

you know surrey.. last time i heard sticks was a few weeks ago... getting stick into swartz for wanting a new coach and board....

he knows whats coming surrey!!!.. he knows!!!...

sticks is our invisible leader...... u dont see him .. u dont hear him.. and hes never outside a presidents lunch.. or a coterie thinggy...

hes shell shocked since the fev presser.. and this is much more serious

lets see if he can come out and meet the press and explain to us carlton people where he hopes to be leading us surrey

hes in the bunker surrey!!!... the bunker!!!... got his hard hat on and hes turned off the light and said shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh they will hear us...

sticks wants the 150th birthday party surrey!!.... he doesnt like hard questions..... trust me ive tested him in real...!!!

hates hard questions....gets very defensive!!!... :lol:


oh and the comp isnt shaking in its boots surrey...its laughing at us....

a decade of mediocrity... sticks has been part of all of that....

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 11:33 pm 
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Serge Silvagni

Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2012 11:12 am
Posts: 915
Blue Vain wrote:
trublu wrote:
Love how KB asked Bruce

KB: do you think it was the right decision to sack Ratten and replace him with Mick
BRUCE: absolutely 100%

Those still banging on about sacking Ratten clearly don't know much of what took place last year. Brett Ratten was a poor manager, lacked people skills, lacked leadership, lacked man management and he had almost 80% of the people at Visy Park offside.

He made no effort to get to know his players and play a role that's just more than just a footy coach was pathetic.

The way he spoke to non football related staff was appalling.

The fact that he couldn't work out that his methods and looooong hours of teaching off a projectors screen wasn't sinking in was damning.

He had lost the players well before that. To hear players mocking the coach and taking the piss out of him right behind his back shows just the total lack of respect they had for him.

Which other president would have to walk into the change rooms and deliver a motivation speech to try get the boys to find some passion within........ I can't think of any


..and yet the shit coach had better results with the same players?

Go figure. :screwy:
Did Bruce have the reasons for that from his birds eye view in Queensland?


The shit coach had Chris Judd carrying the team.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 11:24 am 
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Wayne Johnston
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Dominator7 wrote:
Had 15 min at work, so analysed 2004 to 2007.

(I snipped the detail - AIRCAV)
.


Based on Dominator’s post, I’ve redone my stats analysis of the AFL draft, with an analysis of our performance since 2004.

As per the listings above, it doesn’t make great reading.

I did my analysis in games played by draft picks, then compared it to other clubs.. That analysis shows that since 2004,

Round Picks Avg Games Rank
1 9 53 8
2 7 0 14
3 9 41 8
4 4 32 14
5 5 58 6
6 6 69 6
7 1 25 6

We have been consistently outperformed and are lucky to be ‘average’. To compare our actual performance to other clubs, you can see the detailed stats here

http://affl.net.au/nd-carl-v-oth-detail.html

Our performance, especially with 2nd round draft picks has been atrocious.

A comparison of our draft history can be seen here, along with what the AFL Game average for that round of draft picks. Lots of red numbers!

http://affl.net.au/nd-sels.html

The thing is I started this analysis as I didn’t think our drafting was that bad and I wanted to show it’s not an exact science. However, the deeper you look, the more problems you see.

If someone has been in place since 2004, the raw numbers show that their strategy, whatever it is, is sadly lacking.


National Draft
Overall, our trading is average. We’ve done ok, fairly much just on the AFL average. What the figures do show though is our propensity to trade away 2nd and 3rd round draft picks.
As detailed in the following pages, Rounds 1-3 is where the bulk of AFL players are found and trading out of these picks puts us behind the 8 ball.
For example, since 1999, we have had 30 picks in rd 1-3, ranked 15th / 16, just in front of Sydney (and of course excluding GWS and GCS). By contrast, Geelong have had 51 and with players in the first 3 rds playing on average 50 AFL games, we are a massive 1000 games behind Geelong.

Early draft picks are simply too precious to trade and we should stop trading them away

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 1:48 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Well pointed out...

and then you add up with a rookie isted midfield and youre hoping to make finals and win flags...

Worse still... midfied that isnt rookie listed is long in the tooth...

Thats just pathetic!!!

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 2:36 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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Sticks knows his time is up. Unfortunately, he's doing a Big Jack and sticking around way past his use by date, to the detriment of the Club.
Wayne Hughes also knows his time is up. He may have been able to 'get away with it' during the under resourced days of Den Den, or under the naivety of Ratten, but someone like MM who knows exactly what's what won't stand for him. Wouldn't be surprised if Shane Rogers also follows him out the door.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 4:54 pm 
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Serge Silvagni

Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 3:12 pm
Posts: 942
AIRCAV wrote:
Dominator7 wrote:
Had 15 min at work, so analysed 2004 to 2007.

(I snipped the detail - AIRCAV)
.


Based on Dominator’s post, I’ve redone my stats analysis of the AFL draft, with an analysis of our performance since 2004.

As per the listings above, it doesn’t make great reading.

I did my analysis in games played by draft picks, then compared it to other clubs.. That analysis shows that since 2004,

Round Picks Avg Games Rank
1 9 53 8
2 7 0 14
3 9 41 8
4 4 32 14
5 5 58 6
6 6 69 6
7 1 25 6

We have been consistently outperformed and are lucky to be ‘average’. To compare our actual performance to other clubs, you can see the detailed stats here

http://affl.net.au/nd-carl-v-oth-detail.html

Our performance, especially with 2nd round draft picks has been atrocious.

A comparison of our draft history can be seen here, along with what the AFL Game average for that round of draft picks. Lots of red numbers!

http://affl.net.au/nd-sels.html

The thing is I started this analysis as I didn’t think our drafting was that bad and I wanted to show it’s not an exact science. However, the deeper you look, the more problems you see.

If someone has been in place since 2004, the raw numbers show that their strategy, whatever it is, is sadly lacking.


National Draft
Overall, our trading is average. We’ve done ok, fairly much just on the AFL average. What the figures do show though is our propensity to trade away 2nd and 3rd round draft picks.
As detailed in the following pages, Rounds 1-3 is where the bulk of AFL players are found and trading out of these picks puts us behind the 8 ball.
For example, since 1999, we have had 30 picks in rd 1-3, ranked 15th / 16, just in front of Sydney (and of course excluding GWS and GCS). By contrast, Geelong have had 51 and with players in the first 3 rds playing on average 50 AFL games, we are a massive 1000 games behind Geelong.

Early draft picks are simply too precious to trade and we should stop trading them away

U need to add in the games played by players u got when trading away those picks


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