I would happily "enjoy the ups and downs of a young, developing team" if I was satisfied that the talent in the coaches box matched the talent on the field.

And so far, in 77 odd pages of this thread, I have yet to see one post which provides a rational argument to suggest that it does.

I'll look forward to one of those. Anyone? Just one? Thanks.

Did you see winderlich play through the middle today???? the answer is no.

They play a taxing style of footy, they have plenty of injured and under done players playing and they will probably slide cause of this. Lloyd was injured, so to McVeigh and Watson and they nearly got over the line.

Saying this they still looked organised, had a system, drilled and played with a purpose and would have smashed us if we played them today (well maybe not smash but they would have got over the line)

what do we look like......... to quote Barack "you can put lipstick on a pig, but its still pig"

Winderlich has statistically had his best ever year. Lloyd did get injured but he doesn't have long left does he? Who is his replacement? They struggled against a team who has their #1 player out injured in Richo.

System hasn't worked too well against the good teams - I'm not saying our system is any good/perfect but they are overrated.

McVeigh is more interested in belting players. What sort of a leader is he? Meant to be their next captain. Bit of a leadership void developing at the scum.

_________________
"You are being watched. The government has a secret system. A machine that spies on you every hour of every day. I know because I built it." - Finch

That's a fair point, but looking at it from the other end of the pitch, not one anti-Ratten poster has provided a rational, consistent argument that he indeed isn't the right man for the job with a young, developing team.

_________________
And so while others miserably pledge themselves to the pursuit of ambition and brief power, I will be stretched out in the shade, singing.

I've read plenty of rational comments that are very valid anti-Ratten.

Im not going to bother

Yes you will.

We know you can't help yourself

_________________
And so while others miserably pledge themselves to the pursuit of ambition and brief power, I will be stretched out in the shade, singing.

Oh i want to but i'd probably get banned for life.

Really? So you don't have any issue with the repetitive nature of losses to teams at similar levels of development (Essendon*).

You don't see the disconnect with first year players coming into the Collingwood team and looking like they've been there for years vs the hesitation we see week in week out in our young kids?

You don't have a problem with players being played not only out of position, but laughably so? (Armfield, Hartlett)

Like it or not, these ARE rational arguments for questioning whether we have the best possible coach for this list. And that's what we're about, isn't it? Having the best possible coach?

So - the question lays (as it has for 78 pages now) for someone to provide a cogent response to these concerns. Because honestly, to me, if people are unable to actually answer the question "Is Ratts the right man for the job" then they should be laying off people who are providing suggestions on why he might not be.

Haven't the overall performances said enough.

Isn't the fact that Juddy has got us over the line more than the coaches efforts from the box enough.

Isn't frustrating seeing a bunch of blokes so clueless out on the field pretty much playing on instinct and the reliance of Judd.

Having no clear plan for how this team is to go forth and bring home the bacon.

Players not developing as quick as other clubs.

One week its a developing side, the next a more mature side, then the very next week back to the youth.

Or how about the most embarrassing of all....... the Adelaide debacle.

I love Ratts, no doubt a great bloke and it does hurt me to say such things about a Carlton champion but its a ruthless game we play. We wanna be winners, we want to be premiers and we need the best leading the way.

do it then

_________________
*(grow - fun - gah)

Yeah but whatabout your whataboutism.

grofungoff

Yes, there are rational arguments for questioning, but not in the manner in which it's being done.

The main antagonists have chopped and changed their arguments constantly through this thread. There's been no coherent rational argument against Ratten.

Much like a prosecution case, the case has to be made against Ratten, as much if not more, than a case being made for him.

_________________
And so while others miserably pledge themselves to the pursuit of ambition and brief power, I will be stretched out in the shade, singing.

Do you have any examples besides Essendon*? What about our 2 wins against the Lions? Are they not at a similar level of development? Which other teams are we repeatedly losing to that we shouldn't?

Subjective rubbish. Which first year players are contributing to Collingwood's performance?

What's laughable is that you think Hartlett even has a position at AFL level. What's Armfields best position? Where can we put him to maximise his run while minimising his turnovers?

Subjective opinions aren't rational arguments no matter how many times they're repeated.

This is such a load of crap.

If you're looking at "overall performances", we are moving ahead as a team. And Ratten is developing as a coach, too. His change of tactics and matchups against Sydney says as much. Sure, some weeks it seems like it's 2 steps forward, one back, but look at the big picture, FFS, and you'll see that things are getting better.

If we get to this time next season, and the same inconsistencies are still about, then I'd be right there with you.

_________________
And so while others miserably pledge themselves to the pursuit of ambition and brief power, I will be stretched out in the shade, singing.

Ok, you have to look at things like this.

If you looked at the Essendon* side prior to the season commenced and then saw it unfold ... would you say Knights has extracted more from his team than expected?

Then do the same with us and Ratts...

Sure some of it is expectation that might be unrealistic.... but noone thought Essendon* would go close to the eight this season... and they have also managed to play some refreshing footy...

On the other hand we had an expectation OURSELVES FROM WITHIN,,;;;; and we have not played a brand of footy where our players have looked comfortable .. nor would we think we have extracted as much as possible in individual development or gameplan...

But we have people laughing at what Essendon* are doing...

They have no Judd
They have no Fev
They have no 3 number 1 picks...

Their midfield was considered weak...


The take risks and they play bold football.

On the other hand we look slow.. and we look one dimmensional and ultra cautious...

_________________
Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

KK what facets of the team are developing and what causes you to believe Ratts is growing and developing?
We still have the same problems this year as we had last year....


There are not too many aspects in our team play that have improved.

Defence is one... but i called that last year... and we do play ultra defensively .. we a few lock down players.

Were still leaning on 5 players... the rest of the team has no real role... (unless its some nothing lock down kind of role...)

So youre either a gun or a lock down player (Carrazzo Grigg Joseph Russell Army Browne etc)

These types are not envcouraged to win games by being bold...

_________________
Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

oh the Sydney game. The shinning light! Lets man up there loose players! the mans a genius!

To me, that is an example that Ratts is able to be flexible and proactive in the box and turn a match to our advantage with the players at his disposal.

Isn't that what you want?


BTW, your hero, Choco, just got his team smashed by Adelaide. By far more than they beat us. But he has one shining light.....

_________________
And so while others miserably pledge themselves to the pursuit of ambition and brief power, I will be stretched out in the shade, singing.

Ratts should just tell the boys to play on. Keep it simple for the players and more importantly for the supporters who think that their inability to work out our gameplan means we don't have one. Such an astute gameplan is sure to fool the other coaches and hold up to the pressure of finals footy