No, I was thinking more of the Lions of 2018.
Hodges first year they finished 15th and in his final and second year they finished 2nd.
If you haven't worked it out yet, we don't really have a winning mentality or culture at the club.
Surrounding our players with Premiership players that clearly have it, has its advantages:
1. Shows the kids and other senior players that have only known partial success, what it takes.
2. It gives the club a chance to go that one step further in building its culture, standards and expectations.
3. It has the potential to attract other players that are in the age bracket we lack who also want to get on board.
4. It could also potentially give us a finals shot again next year as the kids develop.

So it is more than just adding a couple of old players, it is adding on-field leadership, standards, expectations and experience, the right experience, winning experience.
This would do more than changing a coach as they are on the ground the whole game directing players, going to the right spots and standing up in the big moments.
Just like Gunston does a the Dorks at 33 years old, soon to be 34.
Also, look what Haynes has brought us this year in defence, he's had a solid year.

Mihocek and Elliot could both go a couple of more years IMO.

Can see the reasoning, but no thanks.
There’s always a spot for them in our VFL where we need depth. Elliot has had a rare good run with injury. Ditto Mihocek.

That’s a straight out trade Elliot and Mihocek for Sivagni vs
Silvagni for end of first round pick, around pick 25 we could trade for one good 5-6 year player

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

Totally agree with pros. Well said. Logical.

Medical required. The 2 players have to run at each other full pelt.

I’m sure such a discussion in List Mgt. I doubt it would happen, plus Mihocek has an offer

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

That would be some medical.

So does Jack.

The point they made was that there are 'un-contracted' players not happy with Jacks offer.
Either way, we need to keep building on what we have done to rid ourselves of this losing mentality that seems to keep coming back to haunt us.

Jordan Lewis at the Dees also . Definitely worth thinking about 100 % .

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All my dangerous friends

Interesting re being unhappy. They aren’t happy with the rate they are expected to play if they want to be part of the Pies machine. Believable.

Pendlebury and Sidebottom have made it public they are paid around the $400 mark, maybe less. They’re being paid rookie players rates to fit in cap and not stuff up rewarding young players on the list.

I wish we were in that position.

Reminds when our list when I first thought our list was stuffed. We had old greats with their handout after 2000: Silvagni, Bradley, Camporeale,. They held the club to ransom because they could play. Different era, pre television rights money.

These days Sidey and Pendlebury would be set, and looked after by the clubs network.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

You're all @#$%&! delusional. But the 'potential finals shot again next year' comment did give me a chuckle. Gonna take a lot more than a couple of Collingwood veterans well into their twilight for Carlton to make finals.

I don't think people realise how far off the club is. Gut the playing list. Let Silvagni walk. The return is better value.

Compensation works on net points, so you’d think that the points add up until they get to Band 1, then they go again. So, if our total points for De Koning & Silvagni adds up to Band 1 & Band 3, then the Band 1 should be safe until Band 3 is exhausted. After that, Band 1 would become Band 2 and so on.

That’s all pretty straightforward and fair enough. Where I’m expecting to get reamed is the fact that the offer in front of De Koning is worth double the salary that is expected to trigger Band 1 compensation.

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"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter" - Winston Churchill.

Unless you’ve got the likes of Dew, Morris, Daly & Davis on the boss’s flanks, it’s a sugar hit.

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"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter" - Winston Churchill.

We should do what Richmond did last year except with more of a focus on obtaining future draft picks (due to the weakness of this years draft) and/or players 25yo or younger.
Tasmania is coming and this will be our last chance to bring in lots of talent through the draft.

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There is no footy god

Yep.

I'm confused. This year's draft is weak, future drafts will be compromised by Tassie getting the first 20 picks (minus whatever gets shovelled West Coast's way), so when exactly are we going to find our next wave?

Furthermore, the success rate - across all sports that have drafts - of teams that knock down and rebuild with kids is very, very low, and Collingwood and Geelong have provided ample evidence that going after mature talent is a very smart way to go, especially in a league that massively favours non Victorian sides.

Sorry but I think you are both way off the mark on reality.
I get you guys are emotionally hurt with our situation but now is not the time to be making decisions based on emotions.
We are in a better position as a club than we have been in the last 20 years IMO.
We are likely to finish 11th or 12th, it is not like we are in contention for a spoon.
Gutting the playing list is the worst possible option we have for several reasons:
1. This draft is the most compromised draft in the history of the AFL.
2. Next year's draft is going to be heavily compromised with Tassie coming in.
3. And how will future picks help the club next season unless you are 100% banking on getting another spoon, which will destroy everything we have been building over the last 10 years.
This is the most ridiculous scenario I could imagine, Richmond did it last year because that was 'the' draft to do it in and was where they are at as a club already, at the bottom.
For me this option is the non-winning mentality I have been referring to.

So back to reality, Voss has managed to get the most out of an unbalanced list to the point that even the club believed we had a better list than we have.
Last year we needed to add senior talent but instead they got rid of senior players and went for youth, that is why we are in this position (coupled with some bad luck also).
Should they have done it for a super draft or gone for older players and possibly still miss out on winning a premiership, who knows.
We are the 4th most impacted team by injury in the AFL this year and we had to be the first last year, that is huge.
Especially when our depth is kids, we have 18 players 21yo or younger and 22 players with less than 50 games.
So when we get an injury to our senior players we have little in experience to back them up, even though some think we have a plethora of talented youth ready to roll and be the next man up.
It's just not true.

As for finals next year, let's say we lose TDK, JSOS and trade out a mid, Cerra or Walsh and possibly Acres.
And we bring in the two Pies mentioned, some mid tier mid age bracket players (Quick HBF, Wing and mid) and Dean, Ison and Gresham only.
The hope would be that we could also get a top 20 player also but I fear if we keep TDK compo pick then SOS will bid for him and make us use it.
With this in mind maybe it is better we finish 12th and Aints finish 11th.
Anyway, we could line up like this next year.

B: Cowan/Ollie Weitering Haynes/Dean/HOF
HB: Newman McLovin (Traded in HBF)/Saad
C: (Traded in quick wing) Lord/Carroll Cripps Smith/Cotters
HF: Williams/Fantasia Curnow Kemp/Mihocek
F: Elliot/White/Motlop McKay(2nd ruck) Moir/Durdin/Fog

Foll: Hewett/Walsh or Cerra (whoever is left), Pitto/Young, (Traded in quick mid)/Cinc.

Bench: Made up from extras above.
We would need to better manage Williams, Fantasia and Elliot like Geelong are with Martin.
We could also move Kemp and McLovin forward or back when required.
We would still have some good depth in the 2s if our injuries are below this year.

Players to go:
TDK, JSOS, Cerra/Walsh, Acres (if required), Doc, Elijah (if he is gone already), Evans, Monahan, Lemmey and F Young.
Possibly rookie one of Lemmey or F Young depending on spaces.

I don't think it is too much of a reach to say we can turn our luck around and be more competitive next year and make finals, even if it is just scraping it in while the kids get more experience.
And a wining culture attracts better players than a rebuilding one with kids.

Exactly.

Tasmania's first draft will be 2027 so I view 2026 as our last chance to obtain significant junior talent.
I'd be happy for us to follow a model similar to Collingwood and Geelong if we were close to a flag - but the reality is that we are miles off. Going down the 'mature talent' path would probably see us end up like West Coast or Carlton circa 2002.
It is worth noting that Collingwood have been very lucky to get Daicos x 2 and Moore as father sons and Quaynor as an academy prospect. Geelong had Bailey Smith fall into their lap.

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There is no footy god

Scott Gullan from the Herald Sun has been writing lies and disparaging commentary about Carlton. Its non stop. He's a real goose.

This is the 3rd week in a row he's written crap:



https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/how-did-it-come-to-this-the-blues-faltered-so-the-pies-are-set-to-swoop-on-sos/news-story/92d78e0d0f5eb2094ac7b1bf681ef5a1

Carlton tabled a 4 year offer for $2.5M a few months ago. Collingwood have only recently come into the picture. The Pies offer is close to the Carlton offer. There's other reasons why Silvagni is looking. One maybe the manager's recommendations to get higher bids.

Gullan is one dead set fool. Aint fooling me.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

We need picks for players, not more kids.

We may get lucky with Dean and Ison this year, leaving us with 2025 and 2026 picks to trade. I don't believe we can't turn this around with players we HAVE on our list.

There's hidden gems and theres some obvious gems who are overlooked in lower leagues. We can get them cheap, and use high picks for great players.

Anyone think we wont have a better engine room next year with a fit Walsh and Smith doesn't know how good they are when fit. Now Moir is doing his apprenticeship, and we have a new look for next year.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

I agree. There's an opportunity to turn things around.
There's no guarantees in life, but if we nail the changes that need to be made this year, plus next year, our window can open again.

WE have a lot of very good players.
Fitness has been our enemy.

I'm sure the club isn't cutting the list back to the bone.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

You are correct their first full draft is in 27, my mistake.
However I think they are still seeking access to Tasmanian kids and the ability for future trading on players not to dissimilar to what the Giants and Suns got.

But you do realise that we also have talent coming through.
We have Jagga to debut, Dean to come this year, Cody next year.
The two Campo boys look like they will be good with another preseason or two.
Plus HOF looks great and Moir is finally starting to get some form.
Wilson could take the next step.
And with better support and direction in the F50, Motlop and Durdin might become a goal a game player with some midfield cameos thrown in.
It's not all doom and gloom, the issue is we have to many kids without experience to be top 8 competitive and is the exact reason you add good mature talent.
We don't want to have another 'green shoots' era where our kids are being marched out for the slaughter with little or no protection.

And Geelong didn't just have Bailey smith fall in their lap, they added mature depth year after year to keep themselves competitive and remain a destination club.
Wining and the chance to play finals and make a grand final appearance makes players move clubs, like Jack is considering.
So if anything now is the exact time to add mature players, to remain relevant and not bottom out under any circumstance.

Exactly, I doubt they would be.