I find it especially odd to propose investing the McKay trade capital into moving TDK to FF and recruiting a ruck. So after seeing great improvement by using our more mobile ruck as #1 choice and prioritising run over height, our next step is to move our mobile ruck to a position where he struggles to impact the game and bring in another giant to play ruck.

Absolute lunacy. We spent a decade longing for a genuine key forward, now we have two Coleman medalists who are primed to dominate the comp for the next 5-8 years and no, now we want to trade one


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lol the envy of other clubs? we haven't made the finals in a decade and this the year we were meant to, we lose 7 in a row trying to play bruise free, and when we finally have a dig we now have the 2nd worst injury list in the entire afl.

there is nothing at cfc where we are the envy. except maybe Charlie - who is and should be untouchable.

we only need 1 premium FF - charlie. then get a cheaper 2nd option and keep Jack as the third. we stay mobile, we don't get in each other's way and we're not soaking up 2mil of salary cap for two players who play the same role. teams won't get a chance to triple team charles if we run and move the ball like we have been, and like we're discovering, that gamestyle requires depth and depth costs money and our pockets are empty.

Harry can't drop punt, struggles in front of goal, and for what he is offering up the field (a release valve and marking target out of defence) for 1 mil a season - we could get for half that. Casboult did it for 350k, mihocek and cox do it for 400k etc

i'm a little astounded people make so much about the two coleman medals when we're not making and winning finals. personal accomplishments are a nice bonus to winning, sure. but taking that, over building a deeper list & winning? please.

nobody is saying move3 tdk to FF ... TDK is the ruck we need, imo. the fact he can go forward and contribute, while he switches out, is just another reason (imo) why tdk is more valuable than harry

This is how the trade talk started:

oh that's just being silly

According to Hun, no interest out west for Zac F but north and hawks showing interest. North potentially interested in Dow and Marchy too.
Do we package them all up to north for one decent pick or trade them individually?
Do we look to get another pick or 2 in this draft or start banking points for the Campo twins?

Are there any recent examples of multiple players being packaged up for a decent pick?

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I can think of a few examples, but don’t want to put 50c into the keogh this early in the day.

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"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter" - Winston Churchill.

Geelong already had Hawkins when they brought in Cameron, both gun forwards.

Let's do the opposite and get rid of a gun forward

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"One of my favorite philosophical tenets is that people will agree with you only if they already agree with you. You do not change people's minds." - Frank Zappa

This is a weirdly spot on description.

But we beat West Coast without H

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And also Richmond who had just won a flag with Riewoldt but paid a premium for Lynch.
There is no scenario that would make us better without McKay in my books. His kicking has been a bit wonky but even with that, he has been mostly playing great football around the ground.
We just need to get them to work better together. And, by the way, that’s a hell of a lot easier when we move the ball faster like we have been in recent weeks.

Also, I’d bring in Marchbank and see what he can give and how his body holds up before delisting him. Similar to Cunningham.

And I wouldn’t be in a hurry to get rid of Gov either - I think he has been pivotal to our resurgence. And he has proved much more durable this year than I thought he could be.

It will be interesting to see how Dow goes, if he is kept in the team. Either he performs well and we keep him ( like Kennedy from a couple of years ago) or his value increased a little for a trade, or - more likely - he just leaves for more opportunity. Couldn’t blame him. Or he doesn’t hold up at AFL level, he leaves for not much and we are no worse off.

I feel like Sam Flanders would be a much better target for us than Gresham. I don’t know a lot but get the impression that Gresham is a perennial underperformer and not sure he adds much to our squad beyond what we already have, except maybe for more $$ (thoughts on this??).

Finally, I’d try to keep TDK - Hoyne last night rated him the third best ruckman of the past 6 weeks behind Gawn and English. But not for $900k! Maybe I’d go up to $800 or even lower but for a longer contract. If he leaves, I’d go for Grundy or Sean Darcy.


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Hoyne ranked Gresham in the 300s last night, why we are in to him is a mystery to me

Hutchie and the media have this right we should put Harry on the market to fill up with first round picks there are holes in our list and would could fill them with the likes of Dow , Obrien, Menzel, Stocker, SPS ,Boekhurst , Sumner, Plowman , Marchbank, Settlefield , Pickett , Jaksch- quality first round picks
Hell we might even use it on someone like say Harry

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They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

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i think the whole point of selling mckay high (where the market will pay overs for him right now) was to keep tdk longterm plus more cap money for other assets. i think tdk is going to the best ruckman in the comp for a half decade and more.


i think people here are falling into a trap of trying to compare harry to jez cameron or lynch from the tigers. cameron has the tank, and ball use of a premium mid and often plays forward-wing and clears out the forwardline for hawkins and stengle. Harry is an excellent mark, but he doesn't do too much else very well imo

both harry and ben mckay imo are very soft, go to ground too easily, and are poor kicks; and for what harry is getting paid, we could do more service to the club by getting a cheaper second banana to play with Charlie.

we could have option A) or B) ...

A) Harry & charlie fighting over the same ball and watching harry kick 1.4 with 3 out of bounds every week.

B) Charlie plus cheap marking forward option, an a-grade small forward, tdk, and money towards a second key position intercept defender (ie upgrade Gov) + 2-3 first round draft picks for the future (ie guarantees us the campo brothers)

It's not so much the holes in our list that we need to think about, it's the holes in this upcoming draft. We have our first rounder, & then it's pick 60-something.

Are we in a position to sustain another year where only one pick works out? We have to find ways of trading into the teens 20s & 30s IMO. Whether that means trading a good player, or packaging up a bundle, time will tell.

I'm not totally against Braithy's idea. If there is an upside to the injuries, it's that we get the next 5 weeks to test his theory, I guess

What if the trade netted us Papley & a couple of decent picks?

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That’s funny, I see it the other way as in we should keep Harry because he often plays forward-wing, has a good tank, clears out the fwd line for Charlie and is good at kicking into the fwd 50.

So, just because Hutch makes a headline, it’s true? And you believe him?Headline Hutch doesn’t speak the truth.

Harry and Charlie do not play the same role. Sure they are focal points but they are different physically and ability.
Hawkins and Cameron are focal points. I’ve seen them plenty of times together in the Full forward line. Are they playing the same role? Do you see Cameron playing as a link further up the ground, like Harry does at times and Charlie other times?
Hawkins can’t run around up the ground like Cameron Harry and Charlie.
No way do we give up weapons like our 2 KPs. We didn’t sign them on long term to give them away.
And the idea that Charlie plays better without Harry on the field is crap. Do you really rate the opponents Charlie has kicked bags against?
Against the top teams with 2 alpha KPDs we have our alpha KPFs.
Without Harry, we would have TDK or SOS as the 2nd KPD. No way are they in the same league as Harry. Harry is an elite mark. Charlie is an elite athlete. They are a combo and both sacrificed salary to play together for Carlton to win flags. They are not paid a million dollars. Oh yeah Hutchy said so

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