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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 25, 2008 7:38 am 
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Rod Ashman
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Dr.SHERRIN wrote:
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4. Anyone who can add some colour about how / why / when Jesaulenko moved out from Full Forward and into other positions would be great.


As I understand it, this happened over a few seasons, namely 1972-73. But Carltons quest for a Full-Forward went on for years to come when perhaps the solution was there all along. I can't really answer (and I think possibly only Jezza, Big Nick and Wes Lofts would know) why Jezza wasn't a permanent fixture at FF for more years than he was - but here's my take from a historical perspetive.


Behind the scenes in the mid-70's; getting a key forward seemed a high priority. The club were beaten to Malcolm Blight's signature due to Barassi having knowedge of who the Blues had their eye on and North made Blight priority number one.

By the time 1977 came around - the Blues recruiting a key forward had become such a growing concern that it got to desperation.

Peter McKenna came to the club - albeit with a stuffed kidney and only managed 11 games. Tony Southcombe was involved in a car accident on his way home from training and quit after 13 promising games. David McKay was looking for a clearance to Subiaco and having bewildered many by recruiting McKenna, Peter Bedford and Renato Serafini - the clubs officials did the unthinkable. They offered Jesaulenko, McKay and one other player in exchange for Essendon* wildman Ronnie Andrews.

Perc Bentley openly admitted later than when taking the vote - he was one of the Carlton officials who thought Jesaulenko was finished. Luckily for the club, Essendon* refused the deal. We missed the finals by half a game and suffered a humiliating loss to Collingwood in Round 6 by 102 points. Mark Maclure topped the goalkicking with 39 and although the club hierarchy changed at season's end - the new brigade which included George Harris' second stint as President continued it's search for the forward problem.

In 1978 Carlton offered Leigh Matthews 3 times what he was earning at Hawthorn. The Blues offer of $60,000 a year was rejected when Hawthorn upped the ante to $40,000 and loyalty lead to Matthews staying in the brown and gold.
We finished fourth, Rod Galt won the goalkicking with 49 and the following year (a Premiership year) Ken Sheldon won with 53...Jezza played in the centre and in defence and the clubs quest for a full-forward would go on until it looked as though Peter Bosustow answered our prayers - then Ross Ditchburn - then Warren Ralph.

In 1983 - the club conducted a poll amongst members to pick their best side for the 25 year period 1957-1982. Jesaulenko was named Full-Forward.


This was an interesting read, Dr Sherrin.

Is there anyway one could verify that Carlton were willing to offer Jezza AND McKay for Andrews? If this is true, we must consider ourselves very lucky that the deal didn't go through. We wouldn't have won the 1979 g/f for starters without Jezza and McKay. What a terrible trade that would have been. Three players for Andrews? what were they thinking. Didn't Ron Andrews play defence anyway?

The Leigh Matthews pay situation was also interesting. I wasn't aware of that either.


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:36 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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blueycarlton wrote:
Dr. Sherrin.
Great read, I was around during those great times except for 73 and 74.
Very interesting about McKay and Jezza , never heard that before.
Fans would have torn the place apart if they had gone to Essendon*.
Jezza could play anywhere he was amazing. Such a pity that he ended his days at St.Kilda.
Apart from Jezza and now Fev we never really had a consistent top full forward in the all the years I've been following the Blues.
Probably would have to go back to Vallance for a reliable goal kicker.
The key to our success over the years is having one of the best defences in the League, and until we have that then the next premiership is just a dream.


The other key is a quality mid-field - our Mosquito Fleet during the 79/81/82 flags were amongst the best collection of ruck/rovers ever assembled in one side:

- Buckley, Ashman, Sheldon, Johnston, Marcou, Harmes, Glasscott, - consistently pumping the ball forward to a very underestimated Mark Maclure who if he wasnt marking it was bringing the ball to the ground where these rovers would crumb beautifully.

If you note that our nominated Full Forwards in these Premiership Years were pretty ineffectual - Peter Brown in 1979, Peter Bosustow in 1981 and Ross Ditchburn in 1982.

The keys were the springboard from defence led by Bruce Doull and the mid-field.

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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 2:57 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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AGRO wrote:
The other key is a quality mid-field - our Mosquito Fleet during the 79/81/82 flags were amongst the best collection of ruck/rovers ever assembled in one side:

- Buckley, Ashman, Sheldon, Johnston, Marcou, Harmes, Glasscott, - consistently pumping the ball forward to a very underestimated Mark Maclure who if he wasnt marking it was bringing the ball to the ground where these rovers would crumb beautifully.

If you note that our nominated Full Forwards in these Premiership Years were pretty ineffectual - Peter Brown in 1979, Peter Bosustow in 1981 and Ross Ditchburn in 1982.

The keys were the springboard from defence led by Bruce Doull and the mid-field.


Yes mate.....I remember Neil Roberts who wrote in 'The Sunday Press" that "trying to contain Carlton's fleet of talented small men was like trying to cover mice with a blanket....no matter how hard you tried....one would always pop out to cause damage"

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 7:12 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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Not sure if anyone can help but I noticed this link to Carlton - Arthur Sleith, a WW2 player for Carlton, died during the month, but the Examiner has a longer article about him.

http://www.examiner.com.au/news/local/sport/?page=5

Im wondering if there is a way to get the article without paying for it?


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 8:00 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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With the new format for Talking Carlton, one thing that is missing is the option of a direct link to the Blueseum from the top right hand side of the page.

Will we get that option back down the track?

It was a good option. Maybe also a link to the Carlton website too.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 8:56 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Yes tap, remember that this is still the sample shell. The Admin are putting the final touches to the finished product, and that includes the TalkingCarlton banner.

Hopefully almost done. :-D


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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 3:00 pm 
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Robert Walls

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tap in 79 wrote:
Dr.SHERRIN wrote:
Quote:
4. Anyone who can add some colour about how / why / when Jesaulenko moved out from Full Forward and into other positions would be great.


As I understand it, this happened over a few seasons, namely 1972-73. But Carltons quest for a Full-Forward went on for years to come when perhaps the solution was there all along. I can't really answer (and I think possibly only Jezza, Big Nick and Wes Lofts would know) why Jezza wasn't a permanent fixture at FF for more years than he was - but here's my take from a historical perspetive.


Behind the scenes in the mid-70's; getting a key forward seemed a high priority. The club were beaten to Malcolm Blight's signature due to Barassi having knowedge of who the Blues had their eye on and North made Blight priority number one.

By the time 1977 came around - the Blues recruiting a key forward had become such a growing concern that it got to desperation.

Peter McKenna came to the club - albeit with a stuffed kidney and only managed 11 games. Tony Southcombe was involved in a car accident on his way home from training and quit after 13 promising games. David McKay was looking for a clearance to Subiaco and having bewildered many by recruiting McKenna, Peter Bedford and Renato Serafini - the clubs officials did the unthinkable. They offered Jesaulenko, McKay and one other player in exchange for Essendon* wildman Ronnie Andrews.

Perc Bentley openly admitted later than when taking the vote - he was one of the Carlton officials who thought Jesaulenko was finished. Luckily for the club, Essendon* refused the deal. We missed the finals by half a game and suffered a humiliating loss to Collingwood in Round 6 by 102 points. Mark Maclure topped the goalkicking with 39 and although the club hierarchy changed at season's end - the new brigade which included George Harris' second stint as President continued it's search for the forward problem.

In 1978 Carlton offered Leigh Matthews 3 times what he was earning at Hawthorn. The Blues offer of $60,000 a year was rejected when Hawthorn upped the ante to $40,000 and loyalty lead to Matthews staying in the brown and gold.
We finished fourth, Rod Galt won the goalkicking with 49 and the following year (a Premiership year) Ken Sheldon won with 53...Jezza played in the centre and in defence and the clubs quest for a full-forward would go on until it looked as though Peter Bosustow answered our prayers - then Ross Ditchburn - then Warren Ralph.

In 1983 - the club conducted a poll amongst members to pick their best side for the 25 year period 1957-1982. Jesaulenko was named Full-Forward.


This was an interesting read, Dr Sherrin.

Is there anyway one could verify that Carlton were willing to offer Jezza AND McKay for Andrews? If this is true, we must consider ourselves very lucky that the deal didn't go through. We wouldn't have won the 1979 g/f for starters without Jezza and McKay. What a terrible trade that would have been. Three players for Andrews? what were they thinking. Didn't Ron Andrews play defence anyway?

The Leigh Matthews pay situation was also interesting. I wasn't aware of that either.

Jezza came down as a HFF. He could play just about anywhere - in fact, he was 3rd in the Brownlow each season he started in a new position (HFF, FF & HBF). However, he wasn't really tall enough for the position if we didn't have midfield dominance - he could take a big mark, but most defenders were much taller than him.
Greg Kennedy was the answer - for a while. His first season, 1972, was fantastic. But after that form and injury and confidence all deserted him. He missed country life and left us. He was a very good lead and a deadly kick, but was never quite the same after being KO'd against North at Arden St in 1973.
We did try a fair few different options. Renato Serafini could have been a good one if we'd got him a little earlier and trained him in the Carlton way of doing things. Alex Ruscuklic was a fantastic mark, but couldn't kick straight. [I was a bit surprised we got him as he hadn't really made it at Fitzroy. However, it appears Big Nick hadn't been consulted and didn't really want him. Hence he survived only 1 season. I think, with some decent training, like they have today, he could have been a very good pickup.]


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 8:20 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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OMG!.......it's hard enough to read the posts.....but the quoted posts are bloody impossible to read......and this is an improvement?

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 7:17 am 
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Robert Walls

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Warby wrote:
OMG!.......it's hard enough to read the posts.....but the quoted posts are bloody impossible to read......and this is an improvement?

Ummm, no. Maybe we could have a slightly different colour scheme? :eek:


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 8:22 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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#1. This is NOT the "I have probs with the new format thread". Please take your concerns and post them in this thread.

#2. As has been discussed, a LIGHT version of the site will be available soon. If you can't adjust your computers, then that version will solve your problems.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 12:21 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Just to let TC'ers know, the Blueseum has recently been fostering a relationship with the Spirit of Carlton group which now incorporates the past players association.

The SOC have been a very successful group for the CFC over the last two years in many aspects.

We should begin to see some more regular interviews and information from past players of the club appearing on the Blueseum (and consequently TC) during 2009.

:smile:

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 12:35 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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I haven't had time to look properly but is there a section that shows the goalkickers for a particular year?

I watched a video last week of highlights of 95' and it seemed that we really shared the goals around - Clape, Sticks, Pearce, Spalding, Diesel etc etc - I'd love to see a break down of how many each kicked.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 12:51 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Ask and ye shall receive.

http://www.blueseum.org/tiki-index.php? ... aying+List

:smile:

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 1:04 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Thanks, that highlights our need for a second key forward.

Interesting that in the video I was reminded of Greg Williams' racial vilification hearing against C Lewis, he never admitted anything exactly but went through the mediation process.

The week after (last round) he got done for abusing an umpire and missed the first final.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 8:16 am 
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Geoff Southby
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molsey wrote:
With the Blueseum stepping up another gear in 2008, we're looking to continue the surge for 2009 to make it a more readily available and up to date information source - this means, in addition to covering our history in increasing detail, yet covering today's players as quickly as possible. We'd like to set up some form of weekly update schedule to ensure that all of the key functions utilised by fans on site is ready and able for use. Now we already have a few key writers who do some of this, but one of us is doing Year 12 next year (and may not have the time), whilst others are moving into research roles on history. The upshot is we have a need to work out a schedule of users - although this sounds like an obligation we'll make sure there's people around to help do the role if you can't. We see it as 5 tasks:

1. Game Reviews
- initial data entry
- game review / commentary

2. Player Bio Updates
- key milestones
- games / goals
- commentary if really required

3. Locker Room
- update each locker for games played (22 jumpers a week)

4. Playing List 2009 update [molsey]
- Ive put together a spreadsheet to help me do this quickly
- Stat Shot update

5. Ad-hoc records (2009 Records)

I'd be happy to take PM's or EOIs in here if someone wants to help. Items 1 and 2 are the really important bits so the more the merrier.

Thanks.


I'd like to finalise this by the end of January if we could - with the pre-season on us shortly it would be good to try to work out the roles (+ have some back-up providers). Of course once the game reports are done nothing stops current users from adding their own thoughts insofar as they aren't deleting the work of others.

I'd be happy to take expressions from all past, current and future users on this.

M

PS> Huge thanks to 'tmd1' for finishing the stat shot section of the site. When we set this up we thought it would be great to get 25% of players to have a full stat summary eg. games / goals / brownlow votes / B&F / average disposals...but 'tmd1' has completed all 1100 players so EACH CFC senior representative now has a page summarising their career, even if they only played 1 game in 1898. Wonderful effort tmd1.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 10:33 am 
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Stephen Silvagni
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What's involved with number 3, Locker Room duties Molsey?


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 11:47 am 
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Bruce Doull
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Great effort from tmd! :thumbsup: :beer:

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 12:02 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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verbs wrote:
What's involved with number 3, Locker Room duties Molsey?


verbs, each week this role would require 44 pages to be updated for games played by the respective Carlton players i.e. 22 games in each 'Locker' in the Locker Room; the same 22 'Lockers' in the Squad Locker Room (the room that looks like the Locker ROom but also tracks Lower Grades Players over the years). Ideally the update would be made to each Locker (+1 to all senior representatives) relatively quickly so the Blueseum games data is up to date.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 2:19 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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molsey wrote:
verbs wrote:
What's involved with number 3, Locker Room duties Molsey?


verbs, each week this role would require 44 pages to be updated for games played by the respective Carlton players i.e. 22 games in each 'Locker' in the Locker Room; the same 22 'Lockers' in the Squad Locker Room (the room that looks like the Locker ROom but also tracks Lower Grades Players over the years). Ideally the update would be made to each Locker (+1 to all senior representatives) relatively quickly so the Blueseum games data is up to date.


Sounds fun. Put me down for that job for 2009 is that's okay.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 8:08 am 
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Geoff Southby
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verbs wrote:
Sounds fun. Put me down for that job for 2009 is that's okay.


Thanks verbs.

We still need some hands for the game reviews for the year; whether we break it up into one a month or one person does the main part and the others edit - I guess generally someone pops up to do this so it might not be that much of a problem.


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