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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2023 8:06 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2008 9:42 pm
Posts: 2766
Location: dudley!!!
carntheblues wrote:
Crusader wrote:
FarmerBlue wrote:
Carlton Uncontracted (13 Players) with my thoughts

Caleb Marchbank. (Delist)
David Cuningham (One Year)
Ed Curnow. (Retire)
Jack Silvagni. (2-3 Years)
Josh Honey. (Delist)
Lachie Fogarty. (One year?)
Lachie Plowman (Delist)
Mitch McGovern. (One year or trade for right deal)
Nic Newman (One Year)
Sam Durdin. (depend if we can replace as we need KPD)
Sam Philp (Delist)
Paddy Dow. (I'd keep but they will delist)
Tom DeKoning. (2 years or trade for First round pick)

*Zac Fisher is contracted until 2024 but strong talk is he is heading home to WA

That's 7 changes

Fogarty & Cuningham are the two that are playing their way into another year, at least. Martin, Durdin, Cottrell & Owies are up for renewal next year as well.

Dow isn’t a competitive animal, so he’s likely content with $180k reviewed annually. Pity he’s become a symbol for the scorched earth dipsticks. The Bronx cheer when he came on as sub against Melbourne sealed his fate.

Fisher is contracted through 2025. I can only assume that the next two years are less than this year - hence the attraction.

Seven changes (two already done) is a good number. But, with only one pick inside 60, we’ll need a good return from De Koning, Fisher & McGovern if it goes that way.



I'm not sure of the logic in delisting any key backs given our shortage. In my eyes both Sam Durdin and Marchbank need to stay, assuming that Voss sees them as good enough. Unless a recurring injury is problematic on an ongoing basis, I do not see it as not being able to be overcome and therefore an issue for remaining on the list.


can we put marchbank onto the rookie list? surely this would be a way to hedge our bets? same with Philp for another year

i doubt we will get much more than a third rounder for dow, same maybe for o'brien, possibly a second rounder for fisher, then the trading cupboard seems a bit bare imo. if we are desperate for picks and to alleviate salary cap, de koning might not have a choice, and may be moved on, which would be a pretty crap outcome. i think jsos needs to stay, pitto is too injury prone

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2023 8:38 pm 
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Wayne Johnston
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Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2007 9:35 am
Posts: 8942
Location: Melbourne
bender wrote:
carntheblues wrote:
Crusader wrote:
FarmerBlue wrote:
Carlton Uncontracted (13 Players) with my thoughts

Caleb Marchbank. (Delist)
David Cuningham (One Year)
Ed Curnow. (Retire)
Jack Silvagni. (2-3 Years)
Josh Honey. (Delist)
Lachie Fogarty. (One year?)
Lachie Plowman (Delist)
Mitch McGovern. (One year or trade for right deal)
Nic Newman (One Year)
Sam Durdin. (depend if we can replace as we need KPD)
Sam Philp (Delist)
Paddy Dow. (I'd keep but they will delist)
Tom DeKoning. (2 years or trade for First round pick)

*Zac Fisher is contracted until 2024 but strong talk is he is heading home to WA

That's 7 changes

Fogarty & Cuningham are the two that are playing their way into another year, at least. Martin, Durdin, Cottrell & Owies are up for renewal next year as well.

Dow isn’t a competitive animal, so he’s likely content with $180k reviewed annually. Pity he’s become a symbol for the scorched earth dipsticks. The Bronx cheer when he came on as sub against Melbourne sealed his fate.

Fisher is contracted through 2025. I can only assume that the next two years are less than this year - hence the attraction.

Seven changes (two already done) is a good number. But, with only one pick inside 60, we’ll need a good return from De Koning, Fisher & McGovern if it goes that way.



I'm not sure of the logic in delisting any key backs given our shortage. In my eyes both Sam Durdin and Marchbank need to stay, assuming that Voss sees them as good enough. Unless a recurring injury is problematic on an ongoing basis, I do not see it as not being able to be overcome and therefore an issue for remaining on the list.


can we put marchbank onto the rookie list? surely this would be a way to hedge our bets? same with Philp for another year

i doubt we will get much more than a third rounder for dow, same maybe for o'brien, possibly a second rounder for fisher, then the trading cupboard seems a bit bare imo. if we are desperate for picks and to alleviate salary cap, de koning might not have a choice, and may be moved on, which would be a pretty crap outcome. i think jsos needs to stay, pitto is too injury prone


I don't think TDK will be forced out due to cap space. McGovern will be coming off a big contract and will free up a lot of money. He's playing well now but with his injury history and the amount of footy he's missed he'll be on a massively reduced contract. Gov might go from 800k to 400k and TDK might do the reverse. Plowman and Ed will probably be gone which will free up a bit of space, possibly Fisher as well.

There will be enough set aside for TDK, it will be up to him where he wants to play. But signs of success at the club will definitely help our cause

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2023 10:41 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2008 9:42 pm
Posts: 2766
Location: dudley!!!
jake_h03 wrote:
bender wrote:
carntheblues wrote:
Crusader wrote:
FarmerBlue wrote:
Carlton Uncontracted (13 Players) with my thoughts

Caleb Marchbank. (Delist)
David Cuningham (One Year)
Ed Curnow. (Retire)
Jack Silvagni. (2-3 Years)
Josh Honey. (Delist)
Lachie Fogarty. (One year?)
Lachie Plowman (Delist)
Mitch McGovern. (One year or trade for right deal)
Nic Newman (One Year)
Sam Durdin. (depend if we can replace as we need KPD)
Sam Philp (Delist)
Paddy Dow. (I'd keep but they will delist)
Tom DeKoning. (2 years or trade for First round pick)

*Zac Fisher is contracted until 2024 but strong talk is he is heading home to WA

That's 7 changes

Fogarty & Cuningham are the two that are playing their way into another year, at least. Martin, Durdin, Cottrell & Owies are up for renewal next year as well.

Dow isn’t a competitive animal, so he’s likely content with $180k reviewed annually. Pity he’s become a symbol for the scorched earth dipsticks. The Bronx cheer when he came on as sub against Melbourne sealed his fate.

Fisher is contracted through 2025. I can only assume that the next two years are less than this year - hence the attraction.

Seven changes (two already done) is a good number. But, with only one pick inside 60, we’ll need a good return from De Koning, Fisher & McGovern if it goes that way.



I'm not sure of the logic in delisting any key backs given our shortage. In my eyes both Sam Durdin and Marchbank need to stay, assuming that Voss sees them as good enough. Unless a recurring injury is problematic on an ongoing basis, I do not see it as not being able to be overcome and therefore an issue for remaining on the list.


can we put marchbank onto the rookie list? surely this would be a way to hedge our bets? same with Philp for another year

i doubt we will get much more than a third rounder for dow, same maybe for o'brien, possibly a second rounder for fisher, then the trading cupboard seems a bit bare imo. if we are desperate for picks and to alleviate salary cap, de koning might not have a choice, and may be moved on, which would be a pretty crap outcome. i think jsos needs to stay, pitto is too injury prone


I don't think TDK will be forced out due to cap space. McGovern will be coming off a big contract and will free up a lot of money. He's playing well now but with his injury history and the amount of footy he's missed he'll be on a massively reduced contract. Gov might go from 800k to 400k and TDK might do the reverse. Plowman and Ed will probably be gone which will free up a bit of space, possibly Fisher as well.

There will be enough set aside for TDK, it will be up to him where he wants to play. But signs of success at the club will definitely help our cause


fair explanation, cheers!

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2023 2:12 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:10 am
Posts: 1495
How far would we go for Harley Reid? Odds are WCE will do a deal for Pick One. Probably two picks inside Top 10 and maybe something else.

Can we swing it and is he worth it?


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2023 9:47 am 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:10 am
Posts: 1495
Nic Newman signs for two years


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2023 10:56 am 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:10 am
Posts: 1495
Uncontracted List

Jack Silvagni
Paddy Dow
Lachie Fogarty
Mitch McGovern
Tom De Koning
Lachie Plowman
Caleb Marchbank
David Cuningham
Sam Philp
Ed Curnow
Josh Honey
Sam Durdin


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2023 11:53 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 9:58 pm
Posts: 4299
FarmerBlue wrote:
Nic Newman signs for two years


Good. We'll deserved


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2023 12:22 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 9:58 pm
Posts: 4299
This is what I'd like to see happen:

Uncontracted List

Jack Silvagni - 2 years
Paddy Dow - doesn't matter what I or anyone else thinks, he'll either get delisted or a Setterfield type trade (half pack of stale chips)
Lachie Fogarty - 1 year but would consider 2
Mitch McGovern - 1 year on reduced money with triggers for a 2nd year
Tom De Koning - ideally 2 years but acknowledge we may need to offer longer term and on what he shown recently not opposed to that
Lachie Plowman - delist
Caleb Marchbank - delist but consider for rookie spot if he can get through remainder of year unscated
David Cuningham - 1 year with triggers for a second
Sam Philp - delist, possibly rookie
Ed Curnow - retire like to see him captain our VFL team
Josh Honey - delist (sorry bondi)
Sam Durdin - keep for 1 year purely because we lack depth in KPD area


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2023 12:49 pm 
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Bert Deacon

Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2022 8:11 pm
Posts: 582
rhino27 wrote:
This is what I'd like to see happen:

Uncontracted List

Jack Silvagni - 2 years
Paddy Dow - doesn't matter what I or anyone else thinks, he'll either get delisted or a Setterfield type trade (half pack of stale chips)
Lachie Fogarty - 1 year but would consider 2
Mitch McGovern - 1 year on reduced money with triggers for a 2nd year
Tom De Koning - ideally 2 years but acknowledge we may need to offer longer term and on what he shown recently not opposed to that
Lachie Plowman - delist
Caleb Marchbank - delist but consider for rookie spot if he can get through remainder of year unscated
David Cuningham - 1 year with triggers for a second
Sam Philp - delist, possibly rookie
Ed Curnow - retire like to see him captain our VFL team
Josh Honey - delist (sorry bondi)
Sam Durdin - keep for 1 year purely because we lack depth in KPD area
Hard to argue with much of that.

I'm a little soft on Marchy and Honey. Wouldn't be opposed to giving Marchbank a year at the end of the season, if he remains healthy until then, or giving Honey a rookie spot.

How do triggers in contracts work? If you play x amount of senior games, the club has the option to extend your contract for another year?


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2023 12:58 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 9:58 pm
Posts: 4299
BamBam7 wrote:
rhino27 wrote:
This is what I'd like to see happen:

Uncontracted List

Jack Silvagni - 2 years
Paddy Dow - doesn't matter what I or anyone else thinks, he'll either get delisted or a Setterfield type trade (half pack of stale chips)
Lachie Fogarty - 1 year but would consider 2
Mitch McGovern - 1 year on reduced money with triggers for a 2nd year
Tom De Koning - ideally 2 years but acknowledge we may need to offer longer term and on what he shown recently not opposed to that
Lachie Plowman - delist
Caleb Marchbank - delist but consider for rookie spot if he can get through remainder of year unscated
David Cuningham - 1 year with triggers for a second
Sam Philp - delist, possibly rookie
Ed Curnow - retire like to see him captain our VFL team
Josh Honey - delist (sorry bondi)
Sam Durdin - keep for 1 year purely because we lack depth in KPD area
Hard to argue with much of that.

I'm a little soft on Marchy and Honey. Wouldn't be opposed to giving Marchbank a year at the end of the season, if he remains healthy until then, or giving Honey a rookie spot.

How do triggers in contracts work? If you play x amount of senior games, the club has the option to extend your contract for another year?


Yep. That's the way I'd do it. If Gov and DC play x number of games in 2024 they trigger an additional year.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2023 1:26 pm 
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Wayne Johnston
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2007 9:35 am
Posts: 8942
Location: Melbourne
rhino27 wrote:
BamBam7 wrote:
rhino27 wrote:
This is what I'd like to see happen:

Uncontracted List

Jack Silvagni - 2 years
Paddy Dow - doesn't matter what I or anyone else thinks, he'll either get delisted or a Setterfield type trade (half pack of stale chips)
Lachie Fogarty - 1 year but would consider 2
Mitch McGovern - 1 year on reduced money with triggers for a 2nd year
Tom De Koning - ideally 2 years but acknowledge we may need to offer longer term and on what he shown recently not opposed to that
Lachie Plowman - delist
Caleb Marchbank - delist but consider for rookie spot if he can get through remainder of year unscated
David Cuningham - 1 year with triggers for a second
Sam Philp - delist, possibly rookie
Ed Curnow - retire like to see him captain our VFL team
Josh Honey - delist (sorry bondi)
Sam Durdin - keep for 1 year purely because we lack depth in KPD area
Hard to argue with much of that.

I'm a little soft on Marchy and Honey. Wouldn't be opposed to giving Marchbank a year at the end of the season, if he remains healthy until then, or giving Honey a rookie spot.

How do triggers in contracts work? If you play x amount of senior games, the club has the option to extend your contract for another year?


Yep. That's the way I'd do it. If Gov and DC play x number of games in 2024 they trigger an additional year.


That would usually trigger a player option, not a club option

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2023 1:47 pm 
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Ken Hunter

Joined: Thu May 11, 2006 6:11 pm
Posts: 14900
FarmerBlue wrote:
Nic Newman signs for two years

Good news, he has been a good servant to the club.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2023 1:49 pm 
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Ken Hunter

Joined: Thu May 11, 2006 6:11 pm
Posts: 14900
Binns has re-signed until 2025 and Lemmey until 2024.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2023 2:03 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 8:50 am
Posts: 1221
Binns 2026, Lemmey 2025

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2023 2:04 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 24678
Location: Bondi Beach
rhino27 wrote:
This is what I'd like to see happen:

Uncontracted List

Jack Silvagni - 2 years
Paddy Dow - doesn't matter what I or anyone else thinks, he'll either get delisted or a Setterfield type trade (half pack of stale chips)
Lachie Fogarty - 1 year but would consider 2
Mitch McGovern - 1 year on reduced money with triggers for a 2nd year
Tom De Koning - ideally 2 years but acknowledge we may need to offer longer term and on what he shown recently not opposed to that
Lachie Plowman - delist
Caleb Marchbank - delist but consider for rookie spot if he can get through remainder of year unscated
David Cuningham - 1 year with triggers for a second
Sam Philp - delist, possibly rookie
Ed Curnow - retire like to see him captain our VFL team
Josh Honey - delist (sorry bondi)
Sam Durdin - keep for 1 year purely because we lack depth in KPD area


:lol: :lol: :lol: I'm not precious.

Interesting how all of the sudden the bloke who cant kick 35m and was No 1 to be delisted is now a 2 year proposition.
Funny how things change on a week to week basis.

I'd keep Honey over Fogarty, and am quite respectful what Fog brings to the table, but imo he isn't the panacea of form shown by the team of late: I'd give more cudos to the fact he's more experienced, more developed and stronger than the baby midgets we had in there Motlop, Durdin & Fisher, and the return of injury prone Martin and Cuningham turnied that HF line into a winning line. Owies pressure has been great since his return too.

Both Honey and Fog have shortfalls, but the upside is what I'd be investing in.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2023 2:14 pm 
Offline
Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 9:58 pm
Posts: 4299
bondiblue wrote:
rhino27 wrote:
This is what I'd like to see happen:

Uncontracted List

Jack Silvagni - 2 years
Paddy Dow - doesn't matter what I or anyone else thinks, he'll either get delisted or a Setterfield type trade (half pack of stale chips)
Lachie Fogarty - 1 year but would consider 2
Mitch McGovern - 1 year on reduced money with triggers for a 2nd year
Tom De Koning - ideally 2 years but acknowledge we may need to offer longer term and on what he shown recently not opposed to that
Lachie Plowman - delist
Caleb Marchbank - delist but consider for rookie spot if he can get through remainder of year unscated
David Cuningham - 1 year with triggers for a second
Sam Philp - delist, possibly rookie
Ed Curnow - retire like to see him captain our VFL team
Josh Honey - delist (sorry bondi)
Sam Durdin - keep for 1 year purely because we lack depth in KPD area


:lol: :lol: :lol: I'm not precious.

Interesting how all of the sudden the bloke who cant kick 35m and was No 1 to be delisted is now a 2 year proposition.
Funny how things change on a week to week basis.

I'd keep Honey over Fogarty, and am quite respectful what Fog brings to the table, but imo he isn't the panacea of form shown by the team of late: I'd give more cudos to the fact he's more experienced, more developed and stronger than the baby midgets we had in there Motlop, Durdin & Fisher, and the return of injury prone Martin and Cuningham turnied that HF line into a winning line. Owies pressure has been great since his return too.

Both Honey and Fog have shortfalls, but the upside is what I'd be investing in.


You are right in that regard. Things can change quickly and it is a brutal business. One minute you can't get a look in, next you're flavour of the month and vice versa. If it does come down to a choice between Fog and Honey I doubt that'll have a major affect on us long term

Anyway, at end of the day none of us have any input in the decision making here. Austin and his team will make the calls so up to them and then whether the players accept any contracts put to them or choose to explore other options.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2023 2:31 pm 
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Ken Hunter

Joined: Thu May 11, 2006 6:11 pm
Posts: 14900
sticksaftersiren87 wrote:
Binns 2026, Lemmey 2025

Cheers, SEN must have got that wrong.


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 Post subject: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2023 2:44 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 3:27 pm
Posts: 6157
Location: Conservative Brisbane :O(
Not trying to shoot or pot the messenger but it wasn't that long ago that the list wasn't up to scratch. Whether it is or not remains to be seen but this spate of contracts suggests that most aspects of the club are back on the same page, which generally is a good thing

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2023 3:54 pm 
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Rod Ashman
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2011 4:05 pm
Posts: 2698
Lowey_47 wrote:
Not trying to shoot or pot the messenger but it wasn't that long ago that the list wasn't up to scratch. Whether it is or not remains to be seen but this spate of contracts suggests that most aspects of the club are back on the same page, which generally is a good thing

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk



Agree.
It might also indicate that fingers in other pies are now clearer?


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2023 4:35 pm 
Offline
Craig Bradley

Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 4:04 pm
Posts: 7454
Location: Bendigo
bondiblue wrote:
rhino27 wrote:
This is what I'd like to see happen:

Uncontracted List

Jack Silvagni - 2 years
Paddy Dow - doesn't matter what I or anyone else thinks, he'll either get delisted or a Setterfield type trade (half pack of stale chips)
Lachie Fogarty - 1 year but would consider 2
Mitch McGovern - 1 year on reduced money with triggers for a 2nd year
Tom De Koning - ideally 2 years but acknowledge we may need to offer longer term and on what he shown recently not opposed to that
Lachie Plowman - delist
Caleb Marchbank - delist but consider for rookie spot if he can get through remainder of year unscated
David Cuningham - 1 year with triggers for a second
Sam Philp - delist, possibly rookie
Ed Curnow - retire like to see him captain our VFL team
Josh Honey - delist (sorry bondi)
Sam Durdin - keep for 1 year purely because we lack depth in KPD area


:lol: :lol: :lol: I'm not precious.

Interesting how all of the sudden the bloke who cant kick 35m and was No 1 to be delisted is now a 2 year proposition.
Funny how things change on a week to week basis.

I'd keep Honey over Fogarty, and am quite respectful what Fog brings to the table, but imo he isn't the panacea of form shown by the team of late: I'd give more cudos to the fact he's more experienced, more developed and stronger than the baby midgets we had in there Motlop, Durdin & Fisher, and the return of injury prone Martin and Cuningham turnied that HF line into a winning line. Owies pressure has been great since his return too.

Both Honey and Fog have shortfalls, but the upside is what I'd be investing in.

Fogarty has never had any trouble finding the ball. I also thought his goose was cooked, simply because he couldn’t get past the younger blokes that were going pretty poor. Even still, he’s a year-to-year proposition.

Honey, on the other hand, still looks confused as to whether left comes after right or if he’s missing a step. As bad as we’ve been on the development side, I don’t think it’s them.

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