..smartest thing he ever said.... ..would have been a massive trade for them if we fell for it..

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..if you can't be good, be good at it..

must keep waite and garlett.waite what choice have 1 more year and garlett is of rare commodity at car has pace.

The added bonus of finishing down the bottom is our second pick could be around 20 then third pick around 38. There can be some very good players at those positions.

If we can do some smart trading for other picks and upgrades Picks around 3, 21, 39, 57 plus 25 & 35 gives us a good starting point. That would be 6 maybe 7 picks in the draft plus 3-4 rookies.

I would be doing everything to add a pick inside Top 20 maybe two. Kruezer, Walker, Tuohy, Garlett, Warnock, Robinson have to be on the table to help us achieve that. It may well be a case of Pick 39 and a player for pick 20 etc.

It's a start.

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#NewBlues beginning 25th August 2015

Ooh he card read good.

Yup.......

pretty sure i just had a minor stroke trying to read
that......!


kindest regards tommi

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that'siti'mnotchangingthistagain......!

Don't always agree with Synbad but he's right on the money. Simpson, Henderson and Murphy have been more valuable to us in the last 2-3 years (Yes I know S said the last 3- 4 years)

Let's put things in perspective. I've always felt Gibbs has been overrated. I'll declare that from the start.
This year (last 4-6 weeks actually), he is starting to show some heartening signs.

Now for some perspective. If Gibbs' contract is being declared at around 3mil over 5 years, that's an average of 600k per year. Regardless of front loading or end loading, are we saying that Judd's last two years (approx 2 mil) compare to an extrapolated on field potential (and free agency inflationary) of Gibbs of 1.2mil in seasons 2018-2019???????

Judd is right up there as one of the most overpaid players in the AFL. He just needs to take a small pay cut and suddenly Betts stays. It's not as if he needs to worry about putting bread on the table in future years

You can Garth Tander, Garth Porter or Garth Leroux me to Kingdom come

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If I want your opinion, I'll give it to you!

We must be brutally realistic and aim for bottom three finish to salvage a disastrous 2014 season.
There is some great young talent on offer and we must take thee opportunity to reinvigorate and restore the list. Lets take advantage to start afresh with some sorely need talent.
It would be pointless to win a game or two just for the face value.
Ciao

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Go Blue Boys

Waite can go
Jeff maybe keep. Sit him down with Mick and Yarran. Maybe Yarran can mentor him on the word according to Mick

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If I want your opinion, I'll give it to you!

No trade them both, or at least let Waite walk via FA. I'm over them both being unreliable, in their own ways. They're paid to help Carlton win football games.

I'm with Punter

Jeff will never harden up

Waite we have waited forever it's time to cut our losses. If he was a stock we'd have lost money

Look it's as much a culture thing as a kicking and marking thing. The place has a stench. Same old players same old problems

Got change it up

You're right about the place having a stench, but you seriously think the players brought this upon the club?

It goes much, much deeper. Blaming the players, coaches and boot studders is just deck chair shuffling on a sinking ship. Stop attacking the list relentlessly and maybe look a bit deeper.

There's a vile, toxic attitude that permeates through the club. You seriously think that's the fault of Waite, Garlett and McLean? Or Malthouse, who's been there all over 18 months? Maybe it was Ratts? But Ratten was a product of his environment, maybe look at that environment that constitutes the club?

Actually nah, @#$%&! it sakc Brock and Jeffy.

Yes.. We have a shocking culture for competition.
It's been in our DNA for two decades. Since 1995

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

It all really fell down when, despite the fact nobody other than Elliott wanted Brittain sacked, Pagan came a long and buggered up the place. The return of the Pratt lifted things, but he was only involved so briefly and then was forced out.

The thing I find highly amusing is people who constantly go on about getting rid of player X, and player Y, like that's it, everything will be fine. These people then move on to a new player X and a new player Y, until they're gone, and then move on to a new player X and a new player Y, and so on. It's not a good look.

Wayne Brittain earned his sacking ... taking a finals team to the wooden spoon in the space of 12 months and gutting the list of anyone with a skerrick of flair and talent as he clearly favoured hardness over ball use (leaving us with a midfield of Campo, Kouta, an ageing Bradley and then the likes of Hulme, Plunkett, Freeborn and Franchina). Despite having an old list at the end of 2001 and Kouta recovering from an ACL he elected to trade for Corey McKernan, Justin Murphy mark II, Andrew Eccles, David Gallagher and Lindsay Smith whilst sending Kris Massie to Adelaide and Mark Porter to North Melbourne. And don't forget that 2001 was the "superdraft" with other clubs doing all they could to load up on picks high up the order (see Hawthorn and Geelong).

Brittain was a disaster for our club and the draft penalties underlined the shortsightedness of these list decisions.

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In WADA we trust

Whilst there is some merit in discussing Brittain's inclusion of the likes of Gallagher and Smith etc, what caused his sacking isn't really the topic of discussion.

In 2002 we at one stage had about 25 players to choose from, similar to a position we were in in 2012, and that also brought a coach down. Ratten had at least lost the players. Brittain however was replaced by somebody no-one respected and it's been all downhill since.

Well then it's definitely a case of history repeating itself. An underperforming playing list can't handle the appointment of an established premiership coach from another club with firm ideas that has delivered success in his previous environment.

I'm agreeing with those that have identified our club culture of the last 20 years (Big Nick included at the recent 150th dinner) as the issue in not adapting to the realities of the new competition (specifically the draft), allowing misguided arrogance to fester within our playing list and not being able to embrace new ideas brought in from outside the organisation.

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In WADA we trust

It seems that aging super-coaches don't know how to lose gracefully, add that to a culture that never rebuilds and you are stuffed. Pagan certainly wasn't helping us to 'adapt to the realities of the new competition (specifically the draft)'. Contrary to the spiel at the time, not all the massive changes made to the list in his time were 'forced' on us.

Anyway, Carlton still thinks that doing all the 'right' things is the answer to success but all it amounts to is passive deterioration.

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Just because I'm offended, doesn't mean I'm wrong.

Established premiership coach?
Try inflexible, old style coach living in the past.

It's no coincidence that no one wanted to go near Pagan after Carlton flicked him. Even the TAC Northern Knights realised he couldn't adapt to modern methods and they said goodbye after a year. AFL Coaches have a use by date.
Pagan had overstayed his and Mick may well do the same.

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

..pretty sure Carlton thinks that doing the right things was a movie.. ..or a song.. ..or something cool.. .... ..but it's not football..

....carlton does embrace the draught...... ..one day, we might even embrace the draft.... ..but that takes time, and brains.... ..and free agency lets us use the wallet again.. .....mmmm, sweet sweet money.... ..development shmovelopment, we are the mighty blues, with all the champions we poach up..

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..if you can't be good, be good at it..

Anyone who thinks the culture of the place is the prime driver behind: Mclean's pace, Garlett's softness and Waite's laconic attitude or armfield & Carazzo's kicking ability is mad

They are a function of an inability to spot and develop character and talent.

The culture is important but you need a base level of list talent for a good culture to create a premiership team. There have been plenty of sides with good club cultures that just didn't quite have the talent such as Bulldogs 90s, Saints this decade, Melbourne 2000's

Whether Mick is behind the times as a match day coach, he is the right guy to develop and build the list. He has done more in that department than anyone since Parkin in summer of 1992'