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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 9:48 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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Synbad wrote:
SurreyBlue wrote:
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: please stop your killing me :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Surrey im not "killing" you.... go check your thesaurus.... your thesaurus would say im " murdering" you!!! :thumbsup:


See - excellent. Point clear, concise, short and now with a touch of humour. I knew we would get there. :clap: :smoking: :thanks:


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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 9:30 am 
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formerly cj69

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My team to beat PA this week and get right back on track.


B: Collins White Laidler
HB: Walker Rowe Tuohy Scotland

Foll: Warnock Judd Murphy
C: Gibbs McLean Armfield

HF: Garlett Henderson
F: Buckley Waite Casboult

Int: Bell Cachia Robinson (Simpson)

Defence:

Collins into defence as small defender. Once again we struggled in that position and Collins suits that role. Give him a go. IMO he wont disappoint and we need someone to do it. Releases Gibbs into midfield.

White is the right match up for Schulz and a very good FB. Laidler is a creative link player we lack. His kicking and third up work is underrated. Walker & Tuohy provide run and attack.

Rowe suits CHB. Is big and strong and could match up well on Westoff.

IMO a well balanced defence.


Midfield:

Warnock is our best ruck and MUST play 75-80% in middle. Relieved by Casboult or even Rowe at times.

Gibbs, Scotland drop back in defence when needed. Armfield plays up the ground more on wing. McLean to do grunt work. Bell, Cachia, Robinson, Garlett, Buckley add to rotations. Key is winning the ball and then run and spread.


Forwards:

Waite & Henderson are smart forwards who demand the ball to the right spots and are good defensively. Will not allow ball to be run out as easily as it has been. Can rotate between CHF & FF. Will be too smart for PA defence.

Casboult is the tall physical target. His job is to make a contest, minimum. As a third option with less pressure he will do well. Good back up ruck. Needs to create room and opportunities for smalls. Push up the wing as a decoy at times and leave space.

Garlett, Buckley (or Menzel) as smalls. Need to be on game defensively then goals will come.

I dont think Carrots will be fit. Hope I'm wrong. If he is I'd drop Simpson and make Robbo sub. Lucas needs to go back and work on hard ball and defensive work.

I'm assuming Jamison, Ellard, Yarran are unfit and of course Betts suspended. I'm worried they will play 3 rucks again. :hitcomputer:


IMO this is a better balanced side all over the ground and suited to ETIHAD.

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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 9:44 am 
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Ken Hunter

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..i think we look a little slow, and cumbersome, together with the raw and inexperienced and i reckon on the fast deck we'd be in for trouble..

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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 10:22 am 
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Rod Ashman

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I think I have a slightly different idea about being tough to what many seem to be suggesting.
The focus should not be on hurting the opposition, except on the scoreboard.
The focus should be on winning - winning the ball, doing what we want to do with the ball and not letting the opposition stand in our way.

At the moment we are soft and weak. We get beaten to the ball, pushed off the ball, our best players are kept out of the contest or limited to ineffectual touches etc...

We need to go harder, win the ball, beat our direct opponents at every contest and help our teammates win their contests - especially our best players, like Murph and Judd. This means we need to block forcefully to make sure Murph, for eg, can get to the ball and that his opponent has doubts or at least has to run around one of our boys to get to him.
It means we make multiple leads (eg. Reiwoldt) and when we make leads, we honour them. We run hard towards goal to back our teammates (eg. Geelong) but we also run equally as hard and cover each other going the other way.
We need to sacrifice our play at times to open space or opportunity for others. (It annoyed me no end to see 2 of our talls spoiling each other... One should be on a different lead drawing players in a different direction!!!!)

We should not go the cheap shot and deck a player off the ball. We need to win the contest, not dodge the contest.
We. Must. Win.


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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 10:45 am 
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Ken Hunter

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..with all the long bombs we like to do, we have to stop the opposing loose tall from being a factor..

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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 10:54 am 
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Rod Ashman
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17th Premiership wrote:
I think I have a slightly different idea about being tough to what many seem to be suggesting.
The focus should not be on hurting the opposition, except on the scoreboard.
The focus should be on winning - winning the ball, doing what we want to do with the ball and not letting the opposition stand in our way.

At the moment we are soft and weak. We get beaten to the ball, pushed off the ball, our best players are kept out of the contest or limited to ineffectual touches etc...

We need to go harder, win the ball, beat our direct opponents at every contest and help our teammates win their contests - especially our best players, like Murph and Judd. This means we need to block forcefully to make sure Murph, for eg, can get to the ball and that his opponent has doubts or at least has to run around one of our boys to get to him.
It means we make multiple leads (eg. Reiwoldt) and when we make leads, we honour them. We run hard towards goal to back our teammates (eg. Geelong) but we also run equally as hard and cover each other going the other way.
We need to sacrifice our play at times to open space or opportunity for others. (It annoyed me no end to see 2 of our talls spoiling each other... One should be on a different lead drawing players in a different direction!!!!)

We should not go the cheap shot and deck a player off the ball. We need to win the contest, not dodge the contest.
We. Must. Win.


17th everything you say is true but the problrm is we haven't been doing these things fora long time.
We need to be able to spot up our leading players and able to hit the target. If not regularly at least put it to their advantage.
We lack skill and our good uses of the ball (Gibbs , Yarran, Scotland) play too close or too far from the assistance zone.


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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 11:51 am 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 8:22 am
Posts: 2758
redback wrote:
17th Premiership wrote:
I think I have a slightly different idea about being tough to what many seem to be suggesting.
The focus should not be on hurting the opposition, except on the scoreboard.
The focus should be on winning - winning the ball, doing what we want to do with the ball and not letting the opposition stand in our way.

At the moment we are soft and weak. We get beaten to the ball, pushed off the ball, our best players are kept out of the contest or limited to ineffectual touches etc...

We need to go harder, win the ball, beat our direct opponents at every contest and help our teammates win their contests - especially our best players, like Murph and Judd. This means we need to block forcefully to make sure Murph, for eg, can get to the ball and that his opponent has doubts or at least has to run around one of our boys to get to him.
It means we make multiple leads (eg. Reiwoldt) and when we make leads, we honour them. We run hard towards goal to back our teammates (eg. Geelong) but we also run equally as hard and cover each other going the other way.
We need to sacrifice our play at times to open space or opportunity for others. (It annoyed me no end to see 2 of our talls spoiling each other... One should be on a different lead drawing players in a different direction!!!!)

We should not go the cheap shot and deck a player off the ball. We need to win the contest, not dodge the contest.
We. Must. Win.


17th everything you say is true but the problrm is we haven't been doing these things fora long time.
We need to be able to spot up our leading players and able to hit the target. If not regularly at least put it to their advantage.
We lack skill and our good uses of the ball (Gibbs , Yarran, Scotland) play too close or too far from the assistance zone.


Agree with skills issue - both delivery and marking it at the other end.
My point is more about those who advocate taking out opposition players as a measure/illustration of toughness where I think we should have a harder focus on winning, where toughness is a means to that end.
Incidentally, being tougher in this way will provide an extra sec to relieve some pressure on the ball carrier which would also improve skill execution.


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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 11:58 am 
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Craig Bradley
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Don't understand Casboult ahead of Rowe at this point. Neither are fantastic, but think Rowe offers more in the ruck, and is smarter/more effective with his ball use.

Since about 2009, we've looked our best with two talls, a medium sized defender and three smalls in the backline. If Jamo's out, I don't see why this practice can't continue, especially against a side that realistically only has one decent tall forward in Schultz (don't consider Westhoff a forward for this purpose).

Reckon Bootsma has to come in this week. Play him in a similiar sort of role to what we used McInnes in towards the end of last year. Even if Jamo is out. Play White forward, Hendo back or vice-a-versa. Port's backline is a bit suspect minus Trengrove.

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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 12:01 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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The Rhino wrote:
Don't understand Casboult ahead of Rowe at this point. Neither are fantastic, but think Rowe offers more in the ruck, and is smarter/more effective with his ball use.

Since about 2009, we've looked our best with two talls, a medium sized defender and three smalls in the backline. If Jamo's out, I don't see why this practice can't continue, especially against a side that realistically only has one decent tall forward in Schultz (don't consider Westhoff a forward for this purpose).

Reckon Bootsma has to come in this week. Play him in a similiar sort of role to what we used McInnes in towards the end of last year. Even if Jamo is out. Play White forward, Hendo back or vice-a-versa. Port's backline is a bit suspect minus Trengrove.


I reckon Port play a similar game to the blues ala 2012.. one way runners but if the ball gets through they run in numbers and cut you up, perhaps they'll be suspect to pressure in the same way were last year and to a lessor extent this year.


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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 12:05 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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It's very reminiscent of us. A backline that has played half a dozen games together. Heath and Stevenson are our Laidler and Duigan. Inconsistent, one way mids and key forwards who don't get on the park enough, but plenty of dangerous smalls. We actually have half decent rucks though.

Monfries to kick six..

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HAVE YOU SIGNED UP FOR TALKINGCARLTON SUPERCOACH 2009 YET?


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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 12:41 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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17th Premiership wrote:
redback wrote:
17th Premiership wrote:
I think I have a slightly different idea about being tough to what many seem to be suggesting.
The focus should not be on hurting the opposition, except on the scoreboard.
The focus should be on winning - winning the ball, doing what we want to do with the ball and not letting the opposition stand in our way.

At the moment we are soft and weak. We get beaten to the ball, pushed off the ball, our best players are kept out of the contest or limited to ineffectual touches etc...

We need to go harder, win the ball, beat our direct opponents at every contest and help our teammates win their contests - especially our best players, like Murph and Judd. This means we need to block forcefully to make sure Murph, for eg, can get to the ball and that his opponent has doubts or at least has to run around one of our boys to get to him.
It means we make multiple leads (eg. Reiwoldt) and when we make leads, we honour them. We run hard towards goal to back our teammates (eg. Geelong) but we also run equally as hard and cover each other going the other way.
We need to sacrifice our play at times to open space or opportunity for others. (It annoyed me no end to see 2 of our talls spoiling each other... One should be on a different lead drawing players in a different direction!!!!)

We should not go the cheap shot and deck a player off the ball. We need to win the contest, not dodge the contest.
We. Must. Win.


17th everything you say is true but the problrm is we haven't been doing these things fora long time.
We need to be able to spot up our leading players and able to hit the target. If not regularly at least put it to their advantage.
We lack skill and our good uses of the ball (Gibbs , Yarran, Scotland) play too close or too far from the assistance zone.


Agree with skills issue - both delivery and marking it at the other end.
My point is more about those who advocate taking out opposition players as a measure/illustration of toughness where I think we should have a harder focus on winning, where toughness is a means to that end.
Incidentally, being tougher in this way will provide an extra sec to relieve some pressure on the ball carrier which would also improve skill execution.


Yes do the 1% and the rest will follow.
Casboult to his credit did try to block and hinder the Hampsons defender in the first game or so but unfortunately was very clumsy and gave some frees away.
At least there was intent.


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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 12:47 pm 
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Ken Hunter

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..Hammer has no real fwd smarts, so if he's up fwd, and waite comes back in.. ..there's no room for a third tall in there..

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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 1:07 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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this is all micro over analysis. the team just isn't good enough (innately).. you could remove 8 players from our senior list tonight and replace them with 8 x18 year old's with 0 game experience and we d be no worse off than we are now.


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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 1:12 pm 
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formerly cj69

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DenimUndies wrote:
this is all micro over analysis. the team just isn't good enough (innate wise).. you could remove 8 players from our senior list tonight and replace them with 8 x18 year old's with 0 game experience and we d be no worse off than we are now.


I'd be happy with a Gun Free Agent, Trade Hampson & Steak Knives to GWS or GC for a gun kid and then draft 6 new kids plus 4 new rookies including a back up Ruck. :wink:

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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 1:14 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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ThePsychologist wrote:
DenimUndies wrote:
this is all micro over analysis. the team just isn't good enough (innate wise).. you could remove 8 players from our senior list tonight and replace them with 8 x18 year old's with 0 game experience and we d be no worse off than we are now.


I'd be happy with a Gun Free Agent, Trade Hampson & Steak Knives to GWS or GC for a gun kid and then draft 6 new kids plus 4 new rookies including a back up Ruck. :wink:


Tht is what we are going to have to do at years end.


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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 1:39 pm 
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formerly cj69

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DenimUndies wrote:
ThePsychologist wrote:
DenimUndies wrote:
this is all micro over analysis. the team just isn't good enough (innate wise).. you could remove 8 players from our senior list tonight and replace them with 8 x18 year old's with 0 game experience and we d be no worse off than we are now.


I'd be happy with a Gun Free Agent, Trade Hampson & Steak Knives to GWS or GC for a gun kid and then draft 6 new kids plus 4 new rookies including a back up Ruck. :wink:


Tht is what we are going to have to do at years end.


Get Thomas via FA
Trade Hampson & AJ to GWS for Jaksch
Trade Lucas to WCE for Second Rounder

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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 2:00 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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ThePsychologist wrote:
DenimUndies wrote:
ThePsychologist wrote:
DenimUndies wrote:
this is all micro over analysis. the team just isn't good enough (innate wise).. you could remove 8 players from our senior list tonight and replace them with 8 x18 year old's with 0 game experience and we d be no worse off than we are now.


I'd be happy with a Gun Free Agent, Trade Hampson & Steak Knives to GWS or GC for a gun kid and then draft 6 new kids plus 4 new rookies including a back up Ruck. :wink:


Tht is what we are going to have to do at years end.


Get Thomas via FA
Trade Hampson & AJ to GWS for Jaksch
Trade Lucas to WCE for Second Rounder

We won't get those trades done.

We might as well trade laidler at this stage too.

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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 2:13 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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Synbad wrote:
ThePsychologist wrote:
DenimUndies wrote:
ThePsychologist wrote:
DenimUndies wrote:
this is all micro over analysis. the team just isn't good enough (innate wise).. you could remove 8 players from our senior list tonight and replace them with 8 x18 year old's with 0 game experience and we d be no worse off than we are now.


I'd be happy with a Gun Free Agent, Trade Hampson & Steak Knives to GWS or GC for a gun kid and then draft 6 new kids plus 4 new rookies including a back up Ruck. :wink:


Tht is what we are going to have to do at years end.


Get Thomas via FA
Trade Hampson & AJ to GWS for Jaksch
Trade Lucas to WCE for Second Rounder

We won't get those trades done.

We might as well trade laidler at this stage too.


and duigan, and I'd also look to trade Simpson


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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 3:26 pm 
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Ken Hunter

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..highly doubt Jaksch will go anywhere so soon, unless he's very unhappy, or there are some other issues.. ..the General has now done both of his knees in as many years, so i don't think they'll be getting rid of a versatile kpp with potential knee isuues in patton..

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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 5:00 pm 
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Bert Deacon

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We must flood the port fwd line leaving no space for westhoff or schultz to lead.Can we have an open fwd line for waite to lead into.All i want to see different game plan.No more long bombs ,kicking straight to opp player, change it mick.


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