I remember about a decade ago how people would bemoan how it was near impossible to remove Big Jack from office.

A decade later, Sticks will leave when he's good and ready. I cannot think of any plausible scenario, outside of the club going bankrupt that would see him asked to leave.

Its an interesting fallout from the Pratt ownership to say the least.

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BLUES 2010: PAV AND JUDD = FLAGS. DOING IT FOR THE LOVE OF DICK PRATT.

HAVE YOU SIGNED UP FOR TALKINGCARLTON SUPERCOACH 2009 YET?

Surrey never suggested that Pratt wasnt good for the club just my experience with their regime and that the club historically hasnt been good at looking after their members/volunteers etc

And whilst its fashionable to see pratt as the saviour I can tell you that in my eyes collins and smorgon both did a power of work before pratt got there under extraordinary circumstances -lesser carlton men would have let the club fold - no one can convince me otherwise that Collins in particular wasnt every bit as significant in the carlton survival/ recovery as Pratt

After elliott and the salary cap BREACH smashing by the AFL WE WERE GOING THE WAY OF FITZROY the guy who stood in the way and prevented that from happening was Ian Collins - if he wasnt such a dogged tough bastard we were gone

Could not agree more....

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"Truth, for the tyrants, is the most terrible and cruel of all bindings; it is like an incandescent iron falling across their chests. And it is even more agonizing than hot iron, for that only burns the flesh, while truth burns its way into the soul"     — Lauro Aguirre

we were gone???

What garbage, the AFL wouldn't let us 'go' - worst case scenario is that they would have a greater say in how we are run. Plus we wouldn't have the capacity to get someone like Judd. Plus the training faciliites we now have.

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Between our dreams and actions lies this world

Ian Collins and Bruce Mathieson.

Couldn't agree less

Collins was there for one thing and one thing only - to help the AFL pay it's debt off at Docklands
Smorgan whilst well intentioned didn't have the backing
The salary cap fine and penalties was implemented by the AFL to get rid of Elliott- FFS teams are breaking the cap every year

We should have backed Elliott and taken the AFL on head on with the backing of Pratt money and if Visy Park wasnt up to AFL standard we should have moved to the G and maybe then we would be up there with the Pies, Bombers and Hawks in the off field stakes

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If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

Dr you are probably right about Mathieson just didnt deal with him during that time

Sydney and King Kerna not even worth a response and how would you know if YOU werent involved

Gee Frank, I didn't think my comments were that bad. Just stating the fact that the AFL wouldn't have let us die.

If you disagree with that you are living by that river in Egypt.

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Between our dreams and actions lies this world

Sorry guys can anyone answer me this ?
Did Collins have the docklands job before or after Carlton moved ?

before

thanks Frank

If you were a social club member and hung around the bar post-game, you definitely would have felt like a part of the club.

As much as Elliot is a swindling old fool, through the 90s he still trotted out one or two players after every win, and gave a decent speech as well as belting out the song with the whole room. That practice was in place right up until he was ousted, and any attempt to replicate it since has been stale, due to a combination of growing security fears in general as well as the nature of the venues now (the Victory room is cavernous compared to the old social club bar, and you notice it). Wind the clock back even further and you'd be sharing a drink with the players, but obviously the professionalism of our age has its benefits as well.

I think the biggest barrier to recreate this experience is the uncertainty that has been created by its absence. The club are paranoid about exposing themselves to members without rehearsal, and the members are legitimately confused about club practice. More thought needs to be put in by both parties (particularly the club) about how and where they can bridge the gap, and what the potential problems are, if any.

The fear of losing intellectual property is eating away at the soul of the club.

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29 different attributes,
And only 7 that you like;
20 ways to see the world,
Or 20 ways to start a fight.

That fear is eating away at a lot of things these days.

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STURDYISM!!

Jimmae I mentioned earlier about the loss of the social club.

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Between our dreams and actions lies this world

Can you elaborate on that Jim. Just so there's no confusion...cheers.

Further to these discussions...this book -



http://www.amazon.com/Winning-Customer- ... 0071775269

- is what every single staff member of the Carlton Football Club, from the President down should read. The author is Lou Imbriano, and like it says on the front cover - Lou is the former CMO of the New England Patriots. When it comes to sporting organisations communicating, reaching out and having a relationship with their fans - Lou is the aficionado on the subject.

Here are a few of his tweets, just from today.

The biggest problem is that organizations do not put themselves in the shoes of their fans & focus too much on policy.

All employees need to work together and be custodians of the brand. Winning the fan is the job of everyone.

There has to be buy in at the top, directive from the middle and endorsement on the ground.

Does your organization listen to fans via social media on games days in an effort to improve customer service ?

It's a huge mistake if all areas of the organization do not. Owners have to come down from their ivory towers & engage.

The product is way too inconsistent in sports. You have to rely on customers service & the fan relationship much more.

Complaints should be treated like questions in press conference. You know the questions coming ~ Practice the answers.

Social media is a great resource to gage fan sentiment. It shouldn't be the only piece, but definitely part of it.

Wins and losses play such a major part in membership sales. To have the edge you need the fan to love the relationship.

I'll leave it at that...suffice to say that just as we are about to embark on what could possibly be our most successful era on-field in a very long time - the controlling hierarchy are making it very difficult for a lot of fans to love the relationship with the club.

In reading this thread, I know I'm not alone in that thinking.

I had an experience at Yankee Stadium last year, that demonstrated exactly how you treat your customers if you want them to become passionate advocates of your brand. They were brilliant.

...and I'm 10,000 miles away - but the customer connection i get from NBA, NFL, EPL and NHL clubs is 10 times what i get from Carlton.

When you're not the best at something - don't you have to question why you're not the best at it?

Is it because what Jimmae alluded to? Are they still taking baby steps in areas they should be taking giant strides? The answer is yes. And the simple answer is they don't want to be the best. Should I order some copies of Lou Imbriano's book from Amazon for the decision makers?? Surely to goodness, it can't hurt.

Well we have closed sessions 75% of the time to keep our tactical plans under wraps, we have disinformation issued in an attempt to leave clubs second guessing while we bed our gameplan in lieu of an injured player returning the following week. Stuff like that.

You look around at sports that draw international intrigue and they don't know any more about the injury status of their players, don't want the intricate details of the tactical strategy out in the mainstream and don't bandy contract numbers and trade targets about the place, yet the give more insight into the philosophies and issues to settle down the majority of media pieces on the issues.

The only time you see the British press go bananas is when a team fails to perform or when they clearly don't have enough information at hand and want to rush a headline out. Give it another couple of hours and all the information has come to light, but they're miles behind the news cycle.

Here, we don't seem to offer that opportunity consistently across the 16 clubs. We have the pretenders like Ross Lyon's tenure at the Saints, the more genuine like the Scott boys and the inbetween types like Hird & Voss who still see press conferences as a tactical game to be played against the opposition. I think Ratten wants to be more media friendly, but like a certain M. Malthouse (who might think he's better at it), he probably lacks the skill set to fully convey his thoughts without pouring through key data and overplaying his hand.

The result is we have a club who gets on the defensive in an effort to protect what they have, instead of creating good press, engendering respect and good will towards the club and creating an organisational philosophy that thrives on innovation to maintain its standing, rather than aggressively safeguarding its existing expertise.

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29 different attributes,
And only 7 that you like;
20 ways to see the world,
Or 20 ways to start a fight.

Can you elaborate please?

I've been a member since '96... I used to be a social club member in the early years when I could barely afford it, and loved it. Getting to the game in time to see the second half of the reserves, just to see who may be in contention for the next game. The atmosphere around the social club was brilliant. Chatting away with injured players as they passed through etc...

These days I just buy a standard membership but feel distant... maybe it's an 'innocence of youth' factor? I don't know. Still love the club and get to as many games as possible, even try to make at least one interstate trip per season. Just feels different.

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“I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers that can't be questioned.” ― Richard Feynman

Booked tickets from Australia online, for the four of us. Pretty decent seats but nothing fantastic.

Got to the game, and was rained out. When that happens, you get to choose another Yankees home game. Which we did at the box office downstairs.

Now I wasn't paying enough attention, because the new tickets I'd picked up for the next night didn't include a seat with wheelchair access (for daughter). I guess half their fault, half mine.

Anyway, got to the game and the guys at the gate spotted our wheelchair, clocked the tickets, and figured something was wrong.

So one of the gate staff took us over to Yankees management desk. We were greeted by two very professional (very attractive - hey it never hurts) staffers. As soon as she saw our problem, she said "come with me, guys"

And she proceeded to take us straight to the player's-friends and family section, right behind home plate.

Introduced us to the manager there, wished us a great night, and THANKED us for visiting the Yankees.

So they not only made good, but without even being asked, gave us thousand-dollar seats when we'd paid for $125 ones.

All for people who they knew would probably never come back.

I compare that to what I know would happen over here, and it'd be chalk and cheese.

THAT'S customer service.