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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 9:56 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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The Duke wrote:
The Rhino wrote:
Ah, gotta love the emotive "MAKE FIVE OR SIX CHANGES, IT SHOWS WE MEAN BUSINESS!" that come out after a loss (even sometimes after a win?). Shows a distinct inability to remove emotion from rationale.

Ask yourself this - before you even think about the actual changes - are a team more or less likely to win, having changed a quarter of the personnel from the week before? Just doesn't work.


You might wanna ask the Cats about that :wink: .


2 suspensions and 2-3 injuries tends to be a bit different than the offered "yeah lets drop 5 players".

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 9:57 pm 
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Robert Walls
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Hotcox wrote:
bluebo baggers wrote:
Hotcox wrote:
10 disposals and 5 marks (2-3 contested) is a pass mark.


So if Austin plays on Reivoldt - doesn't get a kick or take a mark but effects 15 spoils, lays 8 tackles and keeps Jack to zero goals by your definition he has failed.

:screwy:


20 years ago that would have been a great performance but in todays modern game every player on the ground needs to contribute in the zoning of space and pushing up to create the forward press. This means the FB is playing much higher up the ground for longer periods. If a player was to contribute 0 0 0 then that is not good enough.


That's a fair comment but I guess my point is that you can't base a performance on disposals and marks alone. Different players have different matchday roles and us keyboard warriors will never be privvy to each players personal role on any given day. Anyway - I'm sure you will find another way to write off Austin no matter how well (or poorly) he plays.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 9:59 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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teknodeejay wrote:
The Rhino wrote:
Ah, gotta love the emotive "MAKE FIVE OR SIX CHANGES, IT SHOWS WE MEAN BUSINESS!" that come out after a loss (even sometimes after a win?). Shows a distinct inability to remove emotion from rationale.

Ask yourself this - before you even think about the actual changes - are a team more or less likely to win, having changed a quarter of the personnel from the week before? Just doesn't work.


The only reason it's 5 or 6 is due to the 3 or 4 forced changes last week. Robinson, Curnow, Duigan all regulars of the team and forced to miss. You probably want those guys straight back in. Also missing Waite, Laidler and let's be honest Irish Mk I was going alright until he hurt himself.

So there's your 5 or 6. If all were available for selection this week, you'd say ALL with a question over Setanta would go straight back in the team. Am I wrong?


Given Geelong's propensity to win without their stars, Hawthorn winning without Buddy, Roughead and their 2 key defenders, Collingwood managing well without Jolly, Swan and Thomas, it would suggest that staying true to your structures, not compromising your game plan and players knowing their role in the team are far more important than having your best 22 players on the park.

Gradually bring them back, individually they won't be the difference between winning and losing, if its been proven that Franklin, Roughead, Selwood, Bartel, Ottens, Gilham, Swan, Jolly, Thomas, etc aren't the difference between their clubs.

Plenty of weeks left to deal with that.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 10:03 pm 
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Bruce Comben
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The Rhino wrote:
teknodeejay wrote:
The Rhino wrote:
Ah, gotta love the emotive "MAKE FIVE OR SIX CHANGES, IT SHOWS WE MEAN BUSINESS!" that come out after a loss (even sometimes after a win?). Shows a distinct inability to remove emotion from rationale.

Ask yourself this - before you even think about the actual changes - are a team more or less likely to win, having changed a quarter of the personnel from the week before? Just doesn't work.


The only reason it's 5 or 6 is due to the 3 or 4 forced changes last week. Robinson, Curnow, Duigan all regulars of the team and forced to miss. You probably want those guys straight back in. Also missing Waite, Laidler and let's be honest Irish Mk I was going alright until he hurt himself.

So there's your 5 or 6. If all were available for selection this week, you'd say ALL with a question over Setanta would go straight back in the team. Am I wrong?


Given Geelong's propensity to win without their stars, Hawthorn winning without Buddy, Roughead and their 2 key defenders, Collingwood managing well without Jolly, Swan and Thomas, it would suggest that staying true to your structures, not compromising your game plan and players knowing their role in the team are far more important than having your best 22 players on the park.

Gradually bring them back, individually they won't be the difference between winning and losing, if its been proven that Franklin, Roughead, Selwood, Bartel, Ottens, Gilham, Swan, Jolly, Thomas, etc aren't the difference between their clubs.

Plenty of weeks left to deal with that.


The advantage that Collingwood and Geelong have over us is their ability to instill the game plan at VFL level due to them having their own team. Blues players coming up from the Bullants don't have that luxury and seem to take time to adapt.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 10:15 pm 
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The Hyphen wrote:
Warnock needs to toughen up and provide some presence. At the moment he is about as intimidating as Deluca used to be. Last chance for him before he makes way for Irish. Still worried about the backline without Jamo. i remember round one when Reiwoldt kicked 6 and I see no match up for him again.


Riewoldt gave Thornton a bath in round 1 and i have not seen another player take so many chest marks in one on one contests since this season. Lucky this time around that Reiwodt is low on confidence and may be carrying a injury. Also the forecast of rain means we should be able to restrict Riewoldt to 2-3 goals regardless of who we put on him.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 10:15 pm 
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IN: Waite Duigan Robinson Curnow
OUT: Jamison OKeefe Armfield Ellard


I wouldn't mind having Setanta available too.

I don't think they pick Laidler for the seniors after missing more than a month.

Bower's in my best 22, but I don't think the current one is in form. I wish he was.

Ellard needs a rest, OKeefe not ready, Armfield would be good for extra speed.

I am only interested in winning. I bet the blue boys are too this weekend.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 10:25 pm 
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The Hyphen wrote:
The advantage that Collingwood and Geelong have over us is their ability to instill the game plan at VFL level due to them having their own team. Blues players coming up from the Bullants don't have that luxury and seem to take time to adapt.


Both their VFL sides are bottom of the table though. If their game plan is that decent, and non-reliant on key players, then surely it should still hold up at a lower standard of football.

Collingwood and Geelong are rotating their players though, keeping them fresh. We seem to do it differently, we wait for an injury, and turn a one week injury into a 3-4 weeker. They prefer to rotate their bottom 4 in and out to suit match ups.

Such an approach I think is good for morale in the sense that it gives the impression that if you're out of the side, you're only a few weeks away from getting in if you continue to work hard, opportunities will continue to present, something that I think will come in handy from a list management perspective at the end of the year, when players feel they're getting the most opportunities where they are.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 10:27 pm 
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According to CFC Twitter Carlos is 1 week away.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 10:43 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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The Rhino wrote:
The Hyphen wrote:
The advantage that Collingwood and Geelong have over us is their ability to instill the game plan at VFL level due to them having their own team. Blues players coming up from the Bullants don't have that luxury and seem to take time to adapt.


Both their VFL sides are bottom of the table though. If their game plan is that decent, and non-reliant on key players, then surely it should still hold up at a lower standard of football.

Collingwood and Geelong are rotating their players though, keeping them fresh. We seem to do it differently, we wait for an injury, and turn a one week injury into a 3-4 weeker. They prefer to rotate their bottom 4 in and out to suit match ups.

Such an approach I think is good for morale in the sense that it gives the impression that if you're out of the side, you're only a few weeks away from getting in if you continue to work hard, opportunities will continue to present, something that I think will come in handy from a list management perspective at the end of the year, when players feel they're getting the most opportunities where they are.

Our problem is that it's always our most important players that we seem to be without. Can't see them being part of a 'rotation policy'.

But that said, we always seem to be chasing our own tails when it comes to player management. I understand that sometimes it's just shitty luck, but I've been alarmed for quite a long time at the number of times our key talls (our biggest weakness) are always put on the sidelines for weeks on end. We've all lamented for years our lack of a settled back 6, and it continues today.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 10:48 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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Donstuie wrote:
The Rhino wrote:
The Hyphen wrote:
The advantage that Collingwood and Geelong have over us is their ability to instill the game plan at VFL level due to them having their own team. Blues players coming up from the Bullants don't have that luxury and seem to take time to adapt.


Both their VFL sides are bottom of the table though. If their game plan is that decent, and non-reliant on key players, then surely it should still hold up at a lower standard of football.

Collingwood and Geelong are rotating their players though, keeping them fresh. We seem to do it differently, we wait for an injury, and turn a one week injury into a 3-4 weeker. They prefer to rotate their bottom 4 in and out to suit match ups.

Such an approach I think is good for morale in the sense that it gives the impression that if you're out of the side, you're only a few weeks away from getting in if you continue to work hard, opportunities will continue to present, something that I think will come in handy from a list management perspective at the end of the year, when players feel they're getting the most opportunities where they are.

Our problem is that it's always our most important players that we seem to be without. Can't see them being part of a 'rotation policy'.

But that said, we always seem to be chasing our own tails when it comes to player management. I understand that sometimes it's just shitty luck, but I've been alarmed for quite a long time at the number of times our key talls (our biggest weakness) are always put on the sidelines for weeks on end. We've all lamented for years our lack of a settled back 6, and it continues today.


I reckon we've done fairly well. Judd's missed 3 games in 3 years, Murph maybe 1 or 2, Gibbs even less, Kreuzer a great run until his knee injury, then compare it to the other clubs and the players they've missed at times. St Kilda still made the GF without Riewoldt for most of the year last year too.

Waite and Kreuzer going down over the past few years I think has stopped has from overachieving, rather than fulfilling the potential we had in those respective seasons.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 11:40 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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fly into melbourne thursday morning

better win @#$%&!

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 1:11 am 
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grrofunger wrote:
fly into melbourne thursday morning

better win !@#$%&


Enjoy!

I'm flyin' in for the filth game.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 8:08 am 
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Rod Ashman

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Hotcox wrote:
The Hyphen wrote:
Warnock needs to toughen up and provide some presence. At the moment he is about as intimidating as Deluca used to be. Last chance for him before he makes way for Irish. Still worried about the backline without Jamo. i remember round one when Reiwoldt kicked 6 and I see no match up for him again.


Riewoldt gave Thornton a bath in round 1 and i have not seen another player take so many chest marks in one on one contests since this season. Lucky this time around that Reiwodt is low on confidence and may be carrying a injury. Also the forecast of rain means we should be able to restrict Riewoldt to 2-3 goals regardless of who we put on him.


White played on Jack Rd 1.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 8:13 am 
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bondiblue wrote:
IN: Waite Duigan Robinson Curnow
OUT: Jamison OKeefe Armfield Ellard


I wouldn't mind having Setanta available too.

I don't think they pick Laidler for the seniors after missing more than a month.

Bower's in my best 22, but I don't think the current one is in form. I wish he was.

Ellard needs a rest, OKeefe not ready, Armfield would be good for extra speed.

I am only interested in winning. I bet the blue boys are too this weekend.


OKeefe out? What are you doing BB :banghead:

FYI Curnow and Duigan are another week away!

I think the MC will go with:

In: Waite Robbo
Out: Jamo Armfield

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 8:36 am 
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Bert Deacon
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ThePsychologist wrote:
OKeefe out? What are you doing BB :banghead:

FYI Curnow and Duigan are another week away!

I think the MC will go with:

In: Waite Robbo
Out: Jamo Armfield


Agree with that selection. Have been a fan of Army but he's lost the edge he had last year and the team has improved around him. Robbo was a HUGE out for the team last week.

Been saying for a while that I would like to see Hendo play back. It happened last Sunday and, albeit too late, it worked better for both team and player. Waite forward, Hendo back given the match ups align. Need to get some sort of system going up forward.

Still confused as to the story behind Bower.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 8:43 am 
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Bruce Doull
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The Rhino wrote:
I reckon we've done fairly well. Judd's missed 3 games in 3 years, Murph maybe 1 or 2, Gibbs even less, Kreuzer a great run until his knee injury, then compare it to the other clubs and the players they've missed at times. St Kilda still made the GF without Riewoldt for most of the year last year too.

This is true, but look at our luck with talls this year and others

Kreuz: Knee
Waite: Knee, Hamstring
Jamo: Shoulder, knee
Bower: Shoulder
Walker: Shoulder (repeatedly)
206: Shoulder, knees, concussion etc
Hammer: Knee
White: Knee
Duigan: Calf
Laidler: Knee
Austin: You name it
Mitchell: Shoulder (which admittedly was an issue before he was drafted)
Fisher: Shoulder, knee
Setanta: Nigglesfrom the beginning
Ironically the mainstay has been Thornton (and Fev to a lesser extent)

Imagine if we had a full complement of these guys fit and available for selection, but I can't remember a time when we even had half our talls to choose from.

It's been mentioned before that perhaps it's been due to playing at Etihad. It just seems that if you're a tall player drafted to Carlton, and when you finally start playing your best, you'll end up under the knife. It's a curse, and I'm @#$%&! sick of it. ARGH!

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 9:32 am 
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Ken Hunter
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Donstuie wrote:
The Rhino wrote:
I reckon we've done fairly well. Judd's missed 3 games in 3 years, Murph maybe 1 or 2, Gibbs even less, Kreuzer a great run until his knee injury, then compare it to the other clubs and the players they've missed at times. St Kilda still made the GF without Riewoldt for most of the year last year too.

This is true, but look at our luck with talls this year and others

Kreuz: Knee
Waite: Knee, Hamstring
Jamo: Shoulder, knee
Bower: Everything
Walker: Shoulder (repeatedly)
206: Shoulder, knees, concussion etc
Hammer: Knee
White: Knee
Duigan: Calf
Laidler: Knee
Austin: You name it
Mitchell: Shoulder (which admittedly was an issue before he was drafted)
Fisher: Shoulder, knee
Setanta: Nigglesfrom the beginning
Ironically the mainstay has been Thornton (and Fev to a lesser extent)

Imagine if we had a full complement of these guys fit and available for selection, but I can't remember a time when we even had half our talls to choose from.

It's been mentioned before that perhaps it's been due to playing at Etihad. It just seems that if you're a tall player drafted to Carlton, and when you finally start playing your best, you'll end up under the knife. It's a curse, and I'm !@#$%& sick of it. ARGH!


Fixed :)

FWIW Waite and Laidler sustained their injuries before our 4 game run at Etihad this year.

Standard article bagging our opposition alert :roll:
Can the Tigers bring old Jack back?


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 10:50 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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ThePsychologist wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
IN: Waite Duigan Robinson Curnow
OUT: Jamison OKeefe Armfield Ellard


I wouldn't mind having Setanta available too.

I don't think they pick Laidler for the seniors after missing more than a month.

Bower's in my best 22, but I don't think the current one is in form. I wish he was.

Ellard needs a rest, OKeefe not ready, Armfield would be good for extra speed.

I am only interested in winning. I bet the blue boys are too this weekend.


OKeefe out? What are you doing BB :banghead:

FYI Curnow and Duigan are another week away!

I think the MC will go with:

In: Waite Robbo
Out: Jamo Armfield


Now Now Psych. I understand where you are coming from. I did say I'm only interested in a win.
I'm not Nostradamus and I don't know if O'Keefe will play well this weekend, same for Ellard etc.
I'm a huge Ellard and Armfield fan....but I need to select on form and strength and versatility and speed...and that's what I think I've done.
I dropped my emotional connection I have with players and let my head do the thinking. I might be wrong.

I think all the ins I have selected will happen, and someone has to go. Someone has to make room, and I think Tigers will also go tall against us. I've gone for the weakest link. That does not imply I have no faith in those I have ommitted. I've got Carrots and Warnock in my firing line too, but I don't think that's going to happen.

I was going to explain that I wasn't keen on development time for a few of our peripherals (upcoming stars) given the injuries we have at the moment and our need to win every game we can to make sure we make 3rd or 4th position on the ladder.

WCE, Hawks, Swans and Blues are going to fight out for 3rd and 4th on the ladder. We must be one of them. Must.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 11:24 am 
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Robert Walls
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bluedog wrote:
grrofunger wrote:
fly into melbourne thursday morning

better win !@#$%&


Enjoy!

I'm flyin' in for the filth game.


Me too - and managing to stay for the Bummers the next weekend!

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 12:18 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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My opinion...

IN: Laidler, Waite, Robinson

OUT: Jamison (knee), Ellard (omitted), O'Keeffe (omitted - purely for matchup)

Armfield stays in because he can go with Nahas or Edwards.

Duigan would play if it were a final. It's not, so he won't and will be another week away - as will Curnow.


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