Also for those that keep mentioning the continually 'soft' players that should be dropped - name some bloody names rather than insinuating.

I'll even start with 3 candidates that appear to have been mentioned scotland, stevens, fisher.

fisher - 24yo, 79 games
scotland - 27 yo, 148 games
stevens - 28yo, 202 games

Again I need to be enlightened - who exactly should playing ahead of these players?

play the kids. atleast let us get a look at anderson again and benji. why drop pfeiffer?? edwards?? austin?

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"You're not gonna believe this. The guy killed 16 czechoslovakians. He was an interior decorator."

"His house looked like shit!"

4th Chicken - Chapman and Mooney are significant outs for them.

Even though the Cats were coming off a hiding, our boys expected to do lots better.

The Cats have not been setting the world on fire for some time now, so the boys fancied themselves to at least make a contest of it.

Regardless of our young age, the Cats went into the game with Ottens underdone, Ling not 100% and a host of senior players out of form.

We couldn't make it a contest last night and that's dissapointing. Synbad is right in his assessment.

Just watched the game.

Given the limitations of watching the game on tv...

Pros
Gibbs - all class
Armfield - dash, speed and can hit a taget
Another game into Hammer
Fev - had a dip
Cloke - loved his mark and endeavour
Simmo - all guts and class.
Judd -a legend!
Time to give Kreuz a breather.

Cons
Too many selfish players - I'll name them - Stevens and Scotland and they are two our leaders. Pretty poor examples. I can see why people have made their opinions about these two. Playing for #1.
Other than Army no dash or spark from the backline. No one to break the lines.
Field kicking poor.
Wiggo - sorry mate time's up.
Very undersized. Men v Boys. Despite that - I'd like to know how many sheperds we had. It is hard to pick this up on tv.
Handpassing to stationary targets? Happened all the time.



Skinny bodies - Simmo looked like astick man compared to

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"our electorate seeks less to be informed and more to be validated." Sad times.

We brought back 2 senior players (ie mature bodies) in thornton and cloke. The other inclusion was armfield (a 'kid'). In terms of team changes/structure it would have been

waite -> thornton
edwards -> cloke (played CHF)
pfeiffer -> armfield

If you looked at each of those changes individually then you can really complain that much. Pfeiffer was stiff but armfield had been demanding a spot and more than justified his inclusion.

Its not good enough to just say play the kids. Who would you have dropped?
For edwards perhaps Fisher? - last week he had 4 shots on goal+ a goal assist (footywire stats). Surely thats enough to retain his spot. In last nights poor performance fisher had 17 touches, 3 insides 50s and 2 goal assists

For pfeiffer I'd imagine the likely suggestion would be dropping wiggins or russell - both of whom have played reasoably well in recent weeks and contribute heavily in terms of hardness at the ball, 1%rs, tackling etc. They also have more mature bodies than pfeiffer (which was always going to be important against geelong)

For austin the only player that might be a like/like replacement would have been setanta. Again, setanta is a mature body, and last week had his best game for the club/is continuing to develop. Surely you couldnt have dropped him for that.

anderson - again who would you drop and why? Browne has pretty much taken andersons spot for now (also looks to have a more mature body shape).

Benjamin - no form in the ants and you would drop...?

Realistically the only player that could have been dropped from the freo game was one of hampson or kreuzer when cloke was being brought back in - but then dropping thse guys would be hardly playing the kids.

Carazzo is another one who might be popular with some to be dropped but he generally gets the ball, can hurt the opposition on ocassion and had 7 tackles against freo (ie chases). Whilst I dont have him+bentick in my long term 22, I'd continue to play carazzo at least until seasons end as he can still clearly contribute and might have some trade value (bentick would be retained on form basis until hadley is back fully fit)

No doubt chapman and mooney are significant outs as they are gun players. Surely though the loss of our starting FB (jamison), CHB (waite), HBF (walker), bannister (starting BP/HBF/tagger) would cancel out the loss of mooney/chapman though in terms of team structure/importance.

Thats pretty much 4 of our starting back 6 (with another in thornton coming back from injury). When mooney was a late withdrawal they broughtt in a 25yo. In contrast when we have had injuries we have been bringing in mainly 19-21yos (again mature bodies/experience)

Ottens may have been underdone but he is still much bigger/stronger/more experienced than our primary ruckman of the night in hampson and kreuzer. As I said, blake (the cats 'other' ruckman) has pretty much 3X the AFL experience of hampson/kreuzer combined. Surely thats enough to cover bringing in an underdone ottens.

Ling being not quite right -I'd have to presume he is carrying a lingering injury of some sort as he has played all 10 games. I'd have to point out that judd isnt exactly fit either

Lets not forget that Thornton/cloke were coming back from injury and would have been underdone as well.

Yes we couldnt make it a contest and it was disappointing that it wasnt closer but how about you temper the disappointment by looking a the facts and being realistic about it. I went into last nights match hoping to keep the margin to under 30 points and whilst it was much larger than I was hoping for I can see why we lost by so much.

What margin were YOU expecting going into the game?

Im sick of people saying 'play the kids'. How many bloody kids do you want in one team???

We are easily the most inexperienced team in the league, with 3 first year players in Kreuzer, Armfield and Browne playing against Geelong on the weekend. And others throughout the year such as Hampson, Grigg, Pfeiffer, Bower and Jamison only playing a low number of games. We HAVE been playing the kids.

Cant just throw em into AFL footy, especially the way its being played right now. They have to earn their spot. If they arent performing in VFL level what makes you think they can at AFL level?

Do you want us to field a full team of 18 yr olds? geez.

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Carlton Premiers '10

Liked the look of Cloke going forward on the weekend. That pass to Fev was a beauty and that mark and goal as well.

Wanna see more variation in our forward line...unbelievably fev orientated. Have Fev leading out to the 50m arc and leave a space behind him with Cloke/Betts or a Kreuzer/Betts about 20m out .

Or, just clear out the entire forward line and leave Fev with his opponent 1 on 1 with the entire 50 to work with

Wish we still had Josh Kennedy, he's playing well for WC.

Although, what we are lacking the most is medium sized forwards such as Steve Johnson, Didak, Medhurst, Davis etc who are great at ground level, can kick goals from anywhere, take marks and have the X-Factor which makes them hard to match up on.

Cmon Collingwood, you have 4 give us 1 you greedy bastards.

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Carlton Premiers '10

Josh is doing well for the Weagles, but given how bad the Weagles actually are, it could also be that his teammates have set the bar pretty low.

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And so while others miserably pledge themselves to the pursuit of ambition and brief power, I will be stretched out in the shade, singing.

Well, I think there is a little bit of perspective on here, so I am glad to see it.

Saturday night was men against boys. We were always going to get smashed. These are the teams I can 99% guarantee we won't beat this year - Geelong, Adelaide, Sydney, North, Brisbane. The body size of those teams makes it almost impossible for us to compete. Josh Kaplan was right, we needed Hadley, Bannister, and Walker in order to be competitive against those guys. Without them it is like men against boys... and we just can't play that ferocious, hard-tackling style of football at the moment.

Look, the biggest pro is that progress has been made. When was the last time you could look at the ladder and say we are a clearly better side than X, Y. and Z? This year, you can look at the ladder and say we are clearly better than Melbourne, Essendon* (better beat them next time though!), West Coast and Fremantle. The next rung of clubs is the sort of teams we need to get some wins against. They include Collingwood, Port, St Kilda, and Richmond. If we could get two more wins against those sides over the remainder of the season then we can honestly say we have put a significant gap between ourselves and the guys on the bottom of the ladder. Next year I would expect our bodies to be getting to the stage where we can compete more evenly with Adelaide, Sydney, and North... so that will be the next stepping stone. It will also mean finals footy.

QFT!

we have the youngest team in the league FFS!

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thats pretty bad-ass!

Good post Synbad- and thats the responsibility of Ratts and the coaching staff
Its unhealthy for so many on here to be scared to be critical of Ratts because he is a Carlton legend- as I said, an honest assesment of his coaching needs to be made at the end of the year, but to rubbish any criticism of him at this point in time is also counter productive.

havent been online much, but spot on mate.

a side kicks 3 goals in 4 minutes, we have to gain control of the game and possesion.

it was done and done well and resulted us not only doing it will be reducing the margin by a goal.

it isnt attractive, but it was what was needed at the moment in the game, and its the first time for a long time ive actually seen us do it, and do it well.

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Got to love the stare Down by Setanta on Llyod

That game if anything indicated how far away we are as a team to being a realistic chance of a premiership. Geelong are the reigning premiers and have set the standard this season. Bar one thumping from Collingwood, they have still been probably the most dominant team. Hawthorn and the Bulldogs are obviously getting closer and deserve to be in the realistic group of candidates for significant long term success over the next few years.

We are so far behind these teams its not funny. We have a young list with only a small group of senior players to protect them and help with their development. Judd has been a revelation even on half a leg this season, but sadly he is only one man. Stevens seems to be hot and cot and is starting to irk me with his lack of commitment to doing team things like tackling, sheperding, blocking etc. I screamed when I saw him not go to Bowers aid after he sustained his wrist injury. The guy could barely stand the mark, and yet no player came to relieve him. DISGRACEFUL!!!

We don't have any consistent leadership in our backline. I know we are seriously depleted of KP backs, but there is some schoolboy footy basics not being applied. For example Johnson collected the ball in their forward pocket and a group of carlton players "zoned" off him which not only allowed him to get on his preferred foot but gave him time to snap a goal. Compouning this problem, is that no carlton player was blocking or guarding the goalsquare which meant that whilst Johnsons kick only went head high in the air, it easily went through for a goal. If someone was there then at worst they could have rushed a behind.

Another example, allowing Armifield to kick in after a behind was scored. Whilst its good to give young players a challenge, at least help him out. When he had the ball, NO ONE presented an option for him to kick to. The other backs were not leading to give him a target nor were there any midfielders coming from up the ground to DEMAND the ball and help him out. Result, he is left with no other choice but to kick to another contest were Carlton were hoplessly outnumbered and another geelong attack in the forward fifty results.

There are far too many other instances where these types of things happened. You can blame it on inexperience to some degree but really the senior players in this team need to step up and help out.

I know we faced Geelong at the "worst possible time" after they got thrashed, but at the least you would have expected to see a concerted effort to apply pressure against them. Apart from some brief patches in the first half, this was sorely lacking in the game and that more than anything makes me bitterly disappointed.

our current position on the ladder, is about right for where we are as a team.

the positive is, we still have a huge upside in growth.

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Got to love the stare Down by Setanta on Llyod

Pro:
Armfield was good, especially his run through the middle where he hand balled around someone and kept running

Con:
- If Geelong kicked straight, they would have racked up 228 points (I think from memory the score was 19.19)!!

- Once again, no forward structure which didnt involve Fev being double teamed and also having to deal with another floating defender - where were our loose men exactly?

- Gary Ablett tore us apart and we did nothing for a whole quarter

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I will miss you Kouta - thanks for the memories. ps. Kouta > * for ∞

I live in Brisbane - it was on live on 518 - as most matches are - I have not missed a single game this year - always live on either 110 (ch 10), 501 (Fox sports 1) or 518 (Main Event). I wish ch 7 were on Foxtel too.

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I will miss you Kouta - thanks for the memories. ps. Kouta > * for ∞

Agree 100%. Was it attractive, no but it served a purpose and we showed enough poise to pull it off (PRO). For those who didn't like it what would you prefer - going in at half time 13 / 19 points down and still in the game OR going in 50 points down - game over with more to come?

Our team is young and they are learning. They should take alot away from the game, especially in terms of how hard they need to work to cut it with the best. What I'm especially interested in is how they bounce back against Port this week. A winable game which will show us how much we are developing and whether we are learning from our mistakes.

Pros:

2 years ago we would have lost by 100+points
Grigg is getting better and better
Gibbs is maturing
Simmo has a heart like a lion
Judd is a true leader


Cons:

People on this site calling for players heads after a loss to the reigning premiers who beat us by 100+ points last year.

Bower injury (anyone know how long?)

Poor skills (has to be addressed)

Kruezer needs a freshen up in the 2's

Fish too needs a freshen up (why drop edwards)

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Blue boy thru and thru

Weird post.......

youre not asking for their heads to roll.. youre calling it "freshen up"

Look id keep Krruzer in the side just not in the ruck....

why drop him?????

He might cause a missmatch in the forward pocket....

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