Our next coach?

Sniff Wilson · **Posted:** Sun May 13, 2007 6:55 pm

i actually like cammo's push for TD as caretaker.

lets face it. he couldnt do a worse job could he?

iim sick of hearing that there is no one to blame

camel · **Posted:** Sun May 13, 2007 7:01 pm

I'm not sold on TD as an option. However, it does have some redeeming features as already noted.

I dare say Pagan will see out the year and we'll have a chequebook coaching coup a la Elliott/Pagan sorted pretty promptly after R22, or, the finals maybe.

To be honest, I can't see Roos, Worsfold or anyone of that ilk being prised out of their jobs, notwithstanding Pratt's headhunting expertise, I reckon we'll have to go with an up and coming assistant promotion.

I'm not necessarily pushing for this option, but I'm surprised Silvagni's name has not come up yet.

Sniff Wilson · **Posted:** Sun May 13, 2007 7:52 pm

i nominated sos about 4 pages back

*i think.... :oops:

Wangers · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 9:26 pm **Posts:** 1763

bnz wrote:

i nominated sos about 4 pages back

*i think.... :oops:

Not SOS - we need someone outside Carlton. Besides, SOS is learning "tempo" football from his mate Lyon. Would we want that style of footy at Carlton?

I like the West Coast style of game - it works for them.

camel · **Posted:** Sun May 13, 2007 8:11 pm

bnz wrote:

i nominated sos about 4 pages back

*i think.... :oops:

Don't mind me then...

Andain · **Posted:** Sun May 13, 2007 8:17 pm

Wangers wrote:

bnz wrote:

i nominated sos about 4 pages back

*i think.... :oops:

Not SOS - we need someone outside Carlton. Besides, SOS is learning "tempo" football from his mate Lyon. Would we want that style of footy at Carlton?

I like the West Coast style of game - it works for them.

The 'We have so many superstars we can just turn up and win' style of footy? Yeah its a good one but I'm not sure we'd be able to put it into practice.

TruBlueBrad · **Posted:** Sun May 13, 2007 8:29 pm

chubbyruss wrote:

The sooner Pagan goes the better.

He is murdering the confidence of Walker, Gibbs, Kennedy, Russell, Blackwell, Bower & Anderson :evil:

If he doesn't go sooner, rather than later then these lads will be nearly destroyed by seasons end

Kennedy and Russell maaayyyyyyybe...Blackwell very unlikely, Bower and Anderson shouldn't be expecting too many games or game time just yet, but it really is laughable to suggest Walker or Gibbs would be lacking confidence at all and completely stretching to suggest it was due to Pagan if they were.

Most things attributed to Pagan I can understand. The one I can't is the suggestion that he hasn't developed Walker brilliantly. He's a beast now, capable of playing on talls, smalls, defence, midfield, his kicking for goal is good enough now (no doubt due to an assistant rather than Pagan) he could be switched forward and be damaging. The confidence he has is due to the way Pagan has developed him.

We see all this and still complain about Gibbs role. We'd rather see him in the midfield getting smashed like Murphy.

Pagan doubters (and I've become one myself) need to stop throwing as much at him as they can in the hope some of its sticks. Yes point out the flaws in his coaching (the forward set up, which I believe is still due to his overall game strategy rather than Rattens specific role and lack of protection for our younger on ball players are my favourites) but at least be unbiased enough to acknowledge not everything he does is wrong.

chubbyruss · **Joined:** Tue Sep 05, 2006 8:59 am **Posts:** 8628

I reckon Walker was wasted tagging that Bogan Thomas, He would be far more usefull in the midfield giving us some run.
He is far better than a tagger. We don't want to turn him into a Franchina.

BlueJean · **Joined:** Wed Mar 02, 2005 7:41 pm **Posts:** 979

what pagan is really crap at is that in press statements, when questioned on the teams performance he says..."look at a bryce gibbs, a marc murphy.......pause....(pagan tries to think of our players)...a josh kennedy...these players are yet to play 15-20 games of AFL footy"....

it strongly comes across to me that denis has trouble listing confidently all of our young players on our list and when he does name a few it is always the same players he mentions!!!...eg. "a bryce gibbs...a marc murphy..."

He used to refer to Simon Wiggins a lot too...haha...shudder, shudder....

if denis cant confiedently list and praise the entire large group of youngsters out on the paddock...then no wonder the players appear not to have any cofidence or seem laclustre...

i think in todays game you gotta really love and respect your coach...and i wouldn't be surprised if many of our players have lost patience with pagan...

TruBlueBrad · **Posted:** Sun May 13, 2007 8:51 pm

chubbyruss wrote:

I reckon Walker was wasted tagging that Bogan Thomas, He would be far more usefull in the midfield giving us some run.
He is far better than a tagger. We don't want to turn him into a Franchina.

He isn't playing the same tagging role Franchina was. He can give us run from Half Back. Every team in the AFL has Half Back's whose job it is is to create run. Andrew McLeod plays at Half Back, Ty Kennelly plays at Half Back. Whats his role, stop his man or create run?

I doubt Walkers brief yesterday before the game was just to stop Thomas. It would surely have been to mind Thomas when Collingwood have the ball, run off him and create an option when you can, back yourself and use your judgement to decide when.

IF he's being used in a role beneath him...how does that mean Pagan is eroding his confidence? Surely thats for Andrew to decide to play the role being asked of him and to believe in himself.

Can you point out some specific passages of play yesterday where Walker or Gibbs failed because they had a lack of confidence in themselves?

Synbad · **Posted:** Sun May 13, 2007 8:58 pm

TruBlueBrad wrote:

chubbyruss wrote:

I reckon Walker was wasted tagging that Bogan Thomas, He would be far more usefull in the midfield giving us some run.
He is far better than a tagger. We don't want to turn him into a Franchina.

He isn't playing the same tagging role Franchina was. He can give us run from Half Back. Every team in the AFL has Half Back's whose job it is is to create run. Andrew McLeod plays at Half Back, Ty Kennelly plays at Half Back. Whats his role, stop his man or create run?

I doubt Walkers brief yesterday before the game was just to stop Thomas. It would surely have been to mind Thomas when Collingwood have the ball, run off him and create an option when you can, back yourself and use your judgement to decide when.

IF he's being used in a role beneath him...how does that mean Pagan is eroding his confidence? Surely thats for Andrew to decide to play the role being asked of him and to believe in himself.

Can you point out some specific passages of play yesterday where Walker or Gibbs failed because they had a lack of confidence in themselves?

yeah i can...all those times Walker would fly for a mark and today he will safely try and punch it ... hes been stripped of all his natural instinct playing the Pagan defenders game...

The Pagan Bermuda Triangle strikes again...

Effes · **Posted:** Sun May 13, 2007 9:09 pm

How about in the last qtr when Russell could have taken an uncontested mark but decided to double fist it away.

TruBlueBrad · **Posted:** Sun May 13, 2007 9:18 pm

Effes wrote:

How about in the last qtr when Russell could have taken an uncontested mark but decided to double fist it away.

I conceded that Russell may be playing without confidence, but it isn't unusual for a coach to tell his defenders to punch, most coaches will. Whitnall did the same thing. I remember Silvagni often punching when I thought he could have marked. Was that a lack of confidence because of the coach?

How about Gibbs or Walker?

Effes · **Posted:** Sun May 13, 2007 9:23 pm

TruBlueBrad wrote:

Effes wrote:

How about in the last qtr when Russell could have taken an uncontested mark but decided to double fist it away.

I conceded that Russell may be playing without confidence, but it isn't unusual for a coach to tell his defenders to punch, most coaches will. Whitnall did the same thing. I remember Silvagni often punching when I thought he could have marked. Was that a lack of confidence because of the coach?

How about Gibbs or Walker?

I think Gibbs, like Murphy are natural footballers so don't really need any coaching. I don't think Gibbs has lost confidence. It's the athletic types and talls who need coaching/development who have either improved little or have gone backwards.

TruBlueBrad · **Posted:** Sun May 13, 2007 9:48 pm

Effes wrote:

TruBlueBrad wrote:

Effes wrote:

How about in the last qtr when Russell could have taken an uncontested mark but decided to double fist it away.

I conceded that Russell may be playing without confidence, but it isn't unusual for a coach to tell his defenders to punch, most coaches will. Whitnall did the same thing. I remember Silvagni often punching when I thought he could have marked. Was that a lack of confidence because of the coach?

How about Gibbs or Walker?

I think Gibbs, like Murphy are natural footballers so don't really need any coaching. I don't think Gibbs has lost confidence. It's the athletic types and talls who need coaching/development who have either improved little or have gone backwards.

Thats fair enough.

I think we're a little impatient with some of the younger players and wanting them to get their opportunity early and to see some results early.

I'm not fussed with guys spending a couple of years playing more for the Bullants, getting the occassional taste and sticking if they're earning it. The development at training is more important and hopefully they're getting that now with Bradley, Ratten, Crossica, Daniher and Dempsey that they'll survive until the end of the season, where a change would be smoother for everyone.

Hoggy33 · **Joined:** Mon Jul 17, 2006 2:47 pm **Posts:** 1483

I wouldn't advocate TD as anything more than a caretaker. Best option there if we got rid of Pagan midseason, as it doesn't disrupt everyone else, or whatevers left of the structure in place, and gives us a better idea where we're at it, with a completely different style of coach.

Come the end of the year, however, best coach possible.

Rambo Stallone · **Posted:** Mon May 14, 2007 1:00 am

Mark J wrote:

Our next 6,
roos
crows
dogs
port
hawks
freo
bye bye Denis :evil:

Hello RATTS :-D

There really only 1 win there possibly the Kangaroos,but wouldn't be suprised if we get beaten easily by them,they gave us some beating a while back.

Rambo Stallone · **Posted:** Mon May 14, 2007 1:10 am

Synbad wrote:

TruBlueBrad wrote:

chubbyruss wrote:

I reckon Walker was wasted tagging that Bogan Thomas, He would be far more usefull in the midfield giving us some run.
He is far better than a tagger. We don't want to turn him into a Franchina.

He isn't playing the same tagging role Franchina was. He can give us run from Half Back. Every team in the AFL has Half Back's whose job it is is to create run. Andrew McLeod plays at Half Back, Ty Kennelly plays at Half Back. Whats his role, stop his man or create run?

I doubt Walkers brief yesterday before the game was just to stop Thomas. It would surely have been to mind Thomas when Collingwood have the ball, run off him and create an option when you can, back yourself and use your judgement to decide when.

IF he's being used in a role beneath him...how does that mean Pagan is eroding his confidence? Surely thats for Andrew to decide to play the role being asked of him and to believe in himself.

Can you point out some specific passages of play yesterday where Walker or Gibbs failed because they had a lack of confidence in themselves?

yeah i can...all those times Walker would fly for a mark and today he will safely try and punch it ... hes been stripped of all his natural instinct playing the Pagan defenders game...

The Pagan Bermuda Triangle strikes again...

Lance Whitnall is the man to Coach us next year,he might do a good job at least him not in the 22 on the field we could have a developing player on the field and Whitnall still with us and he would be a young coach with a great football mind who knows how to read the game even thou he hasn't been a assistant coach.

bluehammer · **Posted:** Mon May 14, 2007 1:12 am

well my vote for our next coach is clear...

camel · **Posted:** Mon May 14, 2007 8:32 am

Nah, he has too much vision.

Our next coach?

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