TalkingCarlton :: View topic - List Mgmt 2018 - Rowe/Kerridge/Graham/Lamb delisted 18/10/18

It's so easy to sit here now with hindsight vision and analyse what we could of had and should've done. And as time goes by we will see more missed opportunities in the drafts, but this is not just for our club.

SOS is doing a great job so far and if you can't see that then you shouldn't be following football. The biggest issue we've had is stripping the team back to it's bare bones coupled with injuries has produced this season. We are virtually a new club with talented kids all staring their journey. And to reiterate it again for the millionth time the GWS rejects were brought in as VFL or B grade players so we had a least some bigger bodies around the club. Some were high draft picks and if they became more then that, it was a bonus and if not, they fitted the reason they were traded for.

If you're so hell bent on Stephen Wells being the best recruiter then you probably need to compare apples with apples and analyse his mistakes also:
2013 AFL Draft
#16 Darcy Lang - Geelong
#23 Matt Crouch - Adelaide
#24 Billy Hartung - Hawthorn
#26 Zach Merrett - Essendon***

And that's just a couple from the 2013 draft only.

Who did we get #13 Patrick Cripps and apart from Kelly and the Bont, look at the other teams that missed out on him.

My point is it's all good to sit here and analyse who we missed out on but unfortunately it's not as linear as that.

keogh wrote:

bluechampion wrote:

keogh wrote:

If anyone thinks Liam Jones should be on an AFL list

We need to review every facet of how the club functions and injuries
Have played their part but all clubs have injuries GWS had
Shiel
Scully
Patton
Corr
Griffen
Taranto
Williams
Not to mention the 4 guys on the bench injured

Get a decent recruiting team

So what you're saying is that Silvagni has done a terrible job of recruiting at Carlton, and injuries are no excuse for our poor performances. To back that up you cite the depth of the GWS list - listing a number of excellent players who did not play on the weekend as proof that our list is way off.

You do know who put together the GWS list don't you?

Silvangi recruited some guns for the giants
And for us
For the first time we have some top end talent which you should get right with the number of top picks he had at his disposal

And I assume it ain’t his fault entirely that Weitering was asked to
Do way too much which has hampered his progress
And McKay hasn’t been given enough opportunities

My beef is the recruitment of pretty much all of the GWS rejects
Lang OShea Mullett Lobbe Smedts Palmer
Given Jones a 2 year contract extension

Your treading water with that lot
Their not good enough

Do yourself a favour and have a look at premiership teams
And where the 22 players came from
Martin Rance Cotchin Riewoldt were all first rounders
And a couple of others like Rioli

But guys like Butler and Graham Lambert and many others in that teamdidn’t come
From a high pick in the draft

I reckon the most important person at a club these days is the
Head of recruitment
With the mess we were in 3 years ago
We simply had to get the best person for the job of head of recruiting
SOS ain’t the best

The fact that the club have stated they won’t make
As many changes to the list is a head in the sand moment

Injuries have decimated our defence this
year
MC Creddie is one bloke who I hope gets a decent run with
Injury because from what I saw from him he looks the goods
Doc and Williams back will help but the list has way too many holes
For my liking 3 years into to rebuild

Exactly - the 2015 Draft, SOS pulled up stumps at David Cuningham at pick 23, (aside from picking JSOS at Pick 53).

But there were others after pick 23 we could have had a look at if we’d managed our list properly.

Sidefx wrote:

What are you f##### talking about hindsight?, some of us autistic f###s who follow the T.A.C and Champs were literally on here for weeks before each draft imploring the club to take T.McLean and not touch B.B and DVR. To take Gresham, begging them not to take Bootsma. Take Tom Phillips etc etc. pleading with the club to start drafting midfielders 5 f##### years ago.
What is this revisionist excuse making shiite?

Hindsight is a dirty word here (and at the other place) and for the love of god, never ever mention more than one player you would have taken at pick 10.

Sidefx wrote:

smithy wrote:

Sidefx wrote:

I searched for your posts about taking Tom Phillips before he was drafted. There are none Smithy. Same with Josh Bootsma.
As for Gresham, you wanted him with our second round pick. He wasn't available then.

Charlie Curnow was our selection before him. Would you like to swap?

I appreciate you and others watch the TAC and offer informed views, and no doubt there are mistakes made, but we've been as effective as anyone of late IMO. People lauded as gun recruiters on this site have made plenty of high level errors as well. As we know, there is no perfection in this field.

Serious question marks over Kennedy's recruitment. Hope he overcomes the injuries.

Rexy wrote:

Serious question marks over Kennedy's recruitment. Hope he overcomes the injuries.

Why questions over his recruitment? Are you suggesting he's injury prone?

I like Kennedy! He's young, has had no pre-season, and in the last few games he's really come into the roll.

smithy wrote:

Sidefx wrote:

Author:	keogh [ Thu Aug 09, 2018 3:08 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: List Management 2018 - Cripps re-signs 25/7/18
Sidefx wrote: It's so easy to sit here now with hindsight vision and analyse what we could of had and should've done. And as time goes by we will see more missed opportunities in the drafts, but this is not just for our club. SOS is doing a great job so far and if you can't see that then you shouldn't be following football. The biggest issue we've had is stripping the team back to it's bare bones coupled with injuries has produced this season. We are virtually a new club with talented kids all staring their journey. And to reiterate it again for the millionth time the GWS rejects were brought in as VFL or B grade players so we had a least some bigger bodies around the club. Some were high draft picks and if they became more then that, it was a bonus and if not, they fitted the reason they were traded for. If you're so hell bent on Stephen Wells being the best recruiter then you probably need to compare apples with apples and analyse his mistakes also: 2013 AFL Draft #16 Darcy Lang - Geelong #23 Matt Crouch - Adelaide #24 Billy Hartung - Hawthorn #26 Zach Merrett - Essendon*** And that's just a couple from the 2013 draft only. Who did we get #13 Patrick Cripps and apart from Kelly and the Bont, look at the other teams that missed out on him. My point is it's all good to sit here and analyse who we missed out on but unfortunately it's not as linear as that. All recruiters make mistakes I think that’s obvious With all these circulating discussions The bottom line is wins and losses As Doc said it will be around 2 years before We properly can judge

Author:	toddkurnski [ Thu Aug 09, 2018 4:19 pm ]
Post subject:	List Management 2018 - Cripps re-signs 25/7/18
AGRO wrote: keogh wrote: bluechampion wrote: keogh wrote: If anyone thinks Liam Jones should be on an AFL list We need to review every facet of how the club functions and injuries Have played their part but all clubs have injuries GWS had Shiel Scully Patton Corr Griffen Taranto Williams Not to mention the 4 guys on the bench injured Get a decent recruiting team So what you're saying is that Silvagni has done a terrible job of recruiting at Carlton, and injuries are no excuse for our poor performances. To back that up you cite the depth of the GWS list - listing a number of excellent players who did not play on the weekend as proof that our list is way off. You do know who put together the GWS list don't you? Silvangi recruited some guns for the giants And for us For the first time we have some top end talent which you should get right with the number of top picks he had at his disposal And I assume it ain’t his fault entirely that Weitering was asked to Do way too much which has hampered his progress And McKay hasn’t been given enough opportunities My beef is the recruitment of pretty much all of the GWS rejects Lang OShea Mullett Lobbe Smedts Palmer Given Jones a 2 year contract extension Your treading water with that lot Their not good enough Do yourself a favour and have a look at premiership teams And where the 22 players came from Martin Rance Cotchin Riewoldt were all first rounders And a couple of others like Rioli But guys like Butler and Graham Lambert and many others in that teamdidn’t come From a high pick in the draft I reckon the most important person at a club these days is the Head of recruitment With the mess we were in 3 years ago We simply had to get the best person for the job of head of recruiting SOS ain’t the best The fact that the club have stated they won’t make As many changes to the list is a head in the sand moment Injuries have decimated our defence this year MC Creddie is one bloke who I hope gets a decent run with Injury because from what I saw from him he looks the goods Doc and Williams back will help but the list has way too many holes For my liking 3 years into to rebuild Exactly - the 2015 Draft, SOS pulled up stumps at David Cuningham at pick 23, (aside from picking JSOS at Pick 53). But there were others after pick 23 we could have had a look at if we’d managed our list properly. 4 picks inside 23 and 5 in 53. That’s enough picks at a high enough rate. You have to trade for more so the question would be what else would you have traded for another pick at the time given contracts and what we thought of the list we had not what we know now in hindsight. All of the 2015 players look to be 100 game players. Drafting isn’t a weakness since 2015 nor the number of players picked. Getting them all on the field for more than 2 games in a row seems to be the bigger issue at the moment. Look what consistency of playing with your team mates brings to other clubs.

Author:	smithy [ Thu Aug 09, 2018 10:10 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: List Management 2018 - Cripps re-signs 25/7/18
Sidefx wrote: It's so easy to sit here now with hindsight vision and analyse what we could of had and should've done. And as time goes by we will see more missed opportunities in the drafts, but this is not just for our club. What are you f##### talking about hindsight?, some of us autistic f###s who follow the T.A.C and Champs were literally on here for weeks before each draft imploring the club to take T.McLean and not touch B.B and DVR. To take Gresham, begging them not to take Bootsma. Take Tom Phillips etc etc. pleading with the club to start drafting midfielders 5 f##### years ago. What is this revisionist excuse making shiite?

Author:	AGRO [ Thu Aug 09, 2018 10:22 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: List Management 2018 - Cripps re-signs 25/7/18
Hindsight is a dirty word here (and at the other place) and for the love of god, never ever mention more than one player you would have taken at pick 10.

Author:	Sidefx [ Thu Aug 09, 2018 10:43 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: List Management 2018 - Cripps re-signs 25/7/18
smithy wrote: Sidefx wrote: It's so easy to sit here now with hindsight vision and analyse what we could of had and should've done. And as time goes by we will see more missed opportunities in the drafts, but this is not just for our club. What are you f##### talking about hindsight?, some of us autistic f###s who follow the T.A.C and Champs were literally on here for weeks before each draft imploring the club to take T.McLean and not touch B.B and DVR. To take Gresham, begging them not to take Bootsma. Take Tom Phillips etc etc. pleading with the club to start drafting midfielders 5 f##### years ago. What is this revisionist excuse making shiite? Settle down princess!! Why don't you read the whole comment and the comments leading up to it? And before you further yourself on being the oracle of drafting because you watch the TAC, tell me why you're not a recruiter for the club?

TalkingCarlton http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/

List Mgmt 2018 - Rowe/Kerridge/Graham/Lamb delisted 18/10/18 http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=36048	Page 66 of 108

Author:	Sidefx [ Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:00 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: List Management 2018 - Cripps re-signs 25/7/18
AGRO wrote: Hindsight is a dirty word here (and at the other place) and for the love of god, never ever mention more than one player you would have taken at pick 10. Roger that, noted!

Author:	Blue Vain [ Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:14 am ]
Post subject:	Re: List Management 2018 - Cripps re-signs 25/7/18
smithy wrote: Sidefx wrote: It's so easy to sit here now with hindsight vision and analyse what we could of had and should've done. And as time goes by we will see more missed opportunities in the drafts, but this is not just for our club. What are you f##### talking about hindsight?, some of us autistic f###s who follow the T.A.C and Champs were literally on here for weeks before each draft imploring the club to take T.McLean and not touch B.B and DVR. To take Gresham, begging them not to take Bootsma. Take Tom Phillips etc etc. pleading with the club to start drafting midfielders 5 f##### years ago. What is this revisionist excuse making shiite? I searched for your posts about taking Tom Phillips before he was drafted. There are none Smithy. Same with Josh Bootsma. As for Gresham, you wanted him with our second round pick. He wasn't available then. Charlie Curnow was our selection before him. Would you like to swap? I appreciate you and others watch the TAC and offer informed views, and no doubt there are mistakes made, but we've been as effective as anyone of late IMO. People lauded as gun recruiters on this site have made plenty of high level errors as well. As we know, there is no perfection in this field.

Author:	Blueboy74 [ Fri Aug 10, 2018 7:17 am ]
Post subject:	Re: List Management 2018 - Cripps re-signs 25/7/18
Blue Vain wrote: smithy wrote: Sidefx wrote: It's so easy to sit here now with hindsight vision and analyse what we could of had and should've done. And as time goes by we will see more missed opportunities in the drafts, but this is not just for our club. What are you f##### talking about hindsight?, some of us autistic f###s who follow the T.A.C and Champs were literally on here for weeks before each draft imploring the club to take T.McLean and not touch B.B and DVR. To take Gresham, begging them not to take Bootsma. Take Tom Phillips etc etc. pleading with the club to start drafting midfielders 5 f##### years ago. What is this revisionist excuse making shiite? I searched for your posts about taking Tom Phillips before he was drafted. There are none Smithy. Same with Josh Bootsma. As for Gresham, you wanted him with our second round pick. He wasn't available then. Charlie Curnow was our selection before him. Would you like to swap? I appreciate you and others watch the TAC and offer informed views, and no doubt there are mistakes made, but we've been as effective as anyone of late IMO. People lauded as gun recruiters on this site have made plenty of high level errors as well. As we know, there is no perfection in this field. Careful BV. Apparently bringing up previous posts makes you a cheap shot artist, but seeing as though you asked..... viewtopic.php?f=17&t=30851&p=1217855&hilit=Markworth#p1217855 viewtopic.php?f=17&t=30852&p=1211139&hilit=waldhuter#p1211139 Smithy wanted Markworth, Waldhuter etc over Bootsma, and Murdoch, Paine, Dobosz, Bussey and Manson over Rowe. Crisp would have been a good pick up.

Author:	Rexy [ Fri Aug 10, 2018 1:58 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: List Management 2018 - Cripps re-signs 25/7/18
Serious question marks over Kennedy's recruitment. Hope he overcomes the injuries.

Author:	jamespul65 [ Fri Aug 10, 2018 2:00 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: List Management 2018 - Cripps re-signs 25/7/18
we have been slow for years and so we recruit kennedy.

Author:	robertbb [ Fri Aug 10, 2018 2:20 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: List Management 2018 - Cripps re-signs 25/7/18
Kennedy doesn't need to be the quickest... Cripps isn't. We have plenty of speed elsewhere.

Author:	AGRO [ Fri Aug 10, 2018 2:30 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: List Management 2018 - Cripps re-signs 25/7/18

Author:	bmaurizio [ Fri Aug 10, 2018 4:05 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: List Management 2018 - Cripps re-signs 25/7/18
The media hype surrounding Kennedy's ability as midfielder support for Cripps was significant last year. Frankly I’ve got concerns over his recruitment , hopefully he can stay on the park next season, show us something.

Author:	Blue Vain [ Fri Aug 10, 2018 4:08 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: List Management 2018 - Cripps re-signs 25/7/18
Rexy wrote: Serious question marks over Kennedy's recruitment. Hope he overcomes the injuries. Why questions over his recruitment? Are you suggesting he's injury prone?

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Author:	robertbb [ Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:28 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: List Management 2018 - Cripps re-signs 25/7/18
Blue Vain wrote: Rexy wrote: Serious question marks over Kennedy's recruitment. Hope he overcomes the injuries. Why questions over his recruitment? Are you suggesting he's injury prone? Wellllllll.....

Author:	SurreyBlue [ Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:36 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: List Management 2018 - Cripps re-signs 25/7/18
No concerns on Kennedy. Is a gun and will play 200 games for us.

Author:	ryan2000 [ Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:39 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: List Management 2018 - Cripps re-signs 25/7/18
I like Kennedy! He's young, has had no pre-season, and in the last few games he's really come into the roll.

Author:	Donstuie [ Fri Aug 10, 2018 7:47 pm ]
Post subject:	List Management 2018 - Cripps re-signs 25/7/18
ryan2000 wrote: I like Kennedy! He's young, has had no pre-season, and in the last few games he's really come into the roll. Won’t have one next year either.

Author:	Blue Vain [ Fri Aug 10, 2018 7:51 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: List Management 2018 - Cripps re-signs 25/7/18
Yes he will. He's only out for 12 weeks. The new season doesn't start for the best part of 8 months.

Author:	smithy [ Fri Aug 10, 2018 7:59 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: List Management 2018 - Cripps re-signs 25/7/18
Blue Vain wrote: smithy wrote: Sidefx wrote: It's so easy to sit here now with hindsight vision and analyse what we could of had and should've done. And as time goes by we will see more missed opportunities in the drafts, but this is not just for our club. What are you f##### talking about hindsight?, some of us autistic f###s who follow the T.A.C and Champs were literally on here for weeks before each draft imploring the club to take T.McLean and not touch B.B and DVR. To take Gresham, begging them not to take Bootsma. Take Tom Phillips etc etc. pleading with the club to start drafting midfielders 5 f##### years ago. What is this revisionist excuse making shiite? I searched for your posts about taking Tom Phillips before he was drafted. There are none Smithy. Same with Josh Bootsma. As for Gresham, you wanted him with our second round pick. He wasn't available then. Charlie Curnow was our selection before him. Would you like to swap? I appreciate you and others watch the TAC and offer informed views, and no doubt there are mistakes made, but we've been as effective as anyone of late IMO. People lauded as gun recruiters on this site have made plenty of high level errors as well. As we know, there is no perfection in this field. I promise you they are there, keep looking.