Who? Luke or Michael?

Maybe they weren't but geez, it's pretty hard to consistently hire coaches who are not up to it like we have.
Our biggest issue as supporters is the need for instant gratification and is more the issue IMO.
IIRC when we hired Voss the biggest mistake we made was waiting for Clarkson to make a decision and I think it was BV that made a good point of all the assistant coaches getting appointed at other clubs in the meantime.
We defiantly missed the boat that year in attaining good support for Voss and every good coach has good support.
I get what you are saying as an employee though, however Voss is a senior employee and in a good business you have support for that person to be able to perform at the best level they can and the younger/less experienced ones you have mentors.
A saying comes to mind, you can't fly like an eagle if you're surrounded by turkeys.
Maybe Voss needs an early Christmas lunch......
And if we are having this conversation in years to come and we are not really going up or down the ladder, then I guess we need to have a good look at things then.
However, if we are playing finals football next year and for several years onwards, you'd have to think this is better than winning spoons, surely.
But one thing is for sure, if we sakc Voss this year or fully rebuild the team we will never know.
And the probability of getting what we have always got for the last 25 years is most likely.

Plus if we did get the coach that nobody else wanted, doesn't that say a lot about coaches wanting to be senior coach at Carlton.
There was defiantly no line up of more suitable applicants, even Clarkson preferred a year off rather than coming to coach us.

Was Bomber Thompson really a genius coach though?
He nearly got canned and then went on to win multiple flags.
Maybe we should stick with Voss.
Hopefully over time the list gets even better and he implements a better game plan and it all comes together.
It is a risk either way.

Look, I hope you’re right and I’m wrong…but things would have to change drastically for this not to end in tears.

100%
And we already know that sakcing coaches and changing game plans every two years does not work, we've done that to death.
We need to stick with Voss and try something different, it's a better chance to break the cycle we've been in, IMO.

Time and patience, what have we got to lose.

If he is fully committed to a new game plan that revolves around quicker ball movement.
Because that is clearly where the game is headed after a decade or longer of stagnant, defense driven football.
Tigers moved the ball quickly.
So did Melbourne.
And so do Collingwood.
I know there are shades of grey, but Voss comes across as very hesitant and conservative in his footballing philosophy.
If you think about it, while he was a stellar player and a tough one at that, he wasn't overly quick, and as a coach of Brisbane his game plan largely revolved around kicking it to Brown and Fev. Well to my eye this is how he is coaching Carlton - contested ball, slow ball movement, kick it to the two tall forwards - and it isn't working.
He is coaching us in the mould of the player and coach he was previously.
Look I get that when he came here he was probably told to stem the bleeding because under Teague we had big scores kicked against us. And so he has made defense a focus.
But the reality is we have regressed the last 12 months and he needs to change.

There are a lot of truths in what you are saying, but is it because he wants to play this way or is it we are playing this way because we lack speed?

Any club that sakcs a coach based on external noise is not a very well administered club

Such a decision needs to carefully consider all factors internally... factors that the average supporter isn't privy to

A coach needs to be given 3 seasons to put his stamp on the list, imo - so I'll wait until next year before I consider jumping on the sakc bus

... doesn't mean we can't ask questions in the meantime though

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“I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers that can't be questioned.” ― Richard Feynman

The latter .

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All my dangerous friends

For me, just my sanity

100%

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#DonTheStash

Hardwick almost got the arse as well before winning flags didn't he?

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"One of my favorite philosophical tenets is that people will agree with you only if they already agree with you. You do not change people's minds." - Frank Zappa

I lost that years ago and I'll save you the suspense, it's a real hoot.

That's how I remembered it.

I just read what Sayers said about Voss, I’d be nervous if I were in his shoes.

The club has 2 choices (in my view), sack him today or resign him for another two years. Resigning him is the only way you’ll shut down the noise, otherwise that alone will completely derail the season.

Let there be noise.

No way do we resign him with 13 games plus another year left on his contract, and nor should we sack him after less than 1 1/2 seasons in.

Who cares about the heat the media bring. Things can change pretty quickly.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

If that noise starts to impact performance then it needs to be addressed. We’re not exactly blessed with the strongest group.

Hardwick took Richmond to 3 consecutive finals losses prior to him almost losing his job at the end of 2016.
He then threw everything out the door and produced a totally new game plan which we know produced 3 flags

Do I take that Voss has the full support of the board.

Not good

I would love just once that they would come out and say we are not happy Voss performance is below expectations and if things don't improve we will march him out the door.
I am sure Voss would prefer that than you have the full support

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If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws