Sorry I forgot to reply to this.

Disclaimer: my POV is one of total ignorance - I've never seen either of the boys play, and am going purely off the reaction of fans and draft "gurus" - hence why I say "everything I hear about" rather than "everything I've seen of".

To be fair, a lot of the punditry on the boys is quite cryptic. Take that Pommie guy from the BA podcast - usually speaks at great length when giving his 2c, but on the Campos he just says "put it this way, there's a reason they've dropped out of the top 30" and doesn't give any more. Does it mean he has NFI? Is there stuff that we don't want getting out, like physical or character issues? Are we deliberately undermining their value to protect our high picks? Who knows. But I also read more explicit observations that dampen my enthusiasm - "not that quick" being chief among them.

Even if the pessimism is unwarranted, it still sounds like at best we will have a player in Ben if he develops a good inside/outside game in the Cerra mould, but Lucas is part of a 2-for-1 deal that we don't need. A half-back with (again, from what I've heard) no outstanding attributes, why would you invest in that? Can anyone say we'd be interested if he wasn't F/S?

These coaches fall for the same thing Carlton fans fall for.

Gov was on his last legs and looking like he was going to be traded or delisted as a failed forward. Went to the backline and took a few intercept marks and a few nice kicks to targets but he wasn't defending any better than he is today.

Kemp, was put in defence because Voss etc couldnt rely on Young. Kemp, similarly to Gov did a few good things, marks, and manic running, and thought he is the KPD solution. Most Kemp fans were convinced we need speed more than height from defence, when it is obvious unless the KPD has the strength of Scarlett (193) or May (193), height and reach to spoil, let alone mark, matters.

Jones failed as a KPF and was playing out his contract in the VFL, then thrown into defence at FB. He was a revelation with his 200cm and speed. He had a few brain fades and risky kicks, but that happens. I think Jones is the example people clutch onto and think its going to happen everytime we try to plug holes and move players.

We are looking for a KPD 198-202...like Jones, like SDK, to give Weiters arial support and maybe allow Weiters to do more intercepting. Remember how many intercept marks Weiters or Jones were taking playing together...better than Lever May imo.

193cm is not KPD height we need. 193 is an intercept 3rd tall like Marchbanl, Plowman, McGoverne, Kemp are

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

Doherty is huge. Around 200cm. He's not a lumbering type. Still young. Worth developing.

There's plenty out there Mick.

I didn't realise he got to the Surras ...Sorrento. I'm going to call a couple mates down there to hear what they think.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

Pommie is good value, and he's an avid watcher of the kids.

Ive watched all the U18 interstate games. Such a good watch. Even better knowing players coming to carlton.

I think the point you missed is that it is 2024 very deep with midfielders ie plenty of competition from all states this year. Ben looks to be around pick 35 with NGA's etc. Doesn't imply e's the 30th best midfielder. There's also a heap of tall defenders who can run and carry, and have great disposal, and the best of those are also pushing Ben further out. Then theres a couple ruckmen in the 30. Did I mention there's not many KPD's but there's 3rd tall intercept defenders and planty of KPF's who have pushed Ben out.

Ben won the Under 18's Best player award because he was consistently in the best 5 players for his team. He's going to be really good.

Pom worries if someone picks Ben earlier than our pick 31 which means we may miss out on a better player than Ben, not necessarily a midfielder either.

Cerra is a good reference to compare him with, but he's got this wiryness and I don't think he is slow. You have to be quick to succeed as a midfielder at State Champs. He's not express speed, but knows how to run out of trouble, AND has quick hands.

Lucas is a great little player. He's a reliable footballer. Has a good prg. More of a HBF we can develop.

Would we take Ben pick 31 if he was not a Camporeales? I don't know. No one knows.

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Like I said Scarlett and May were 193cm, but made up their lack of height with superior strength. I wouldn't be surprised if weiters is the strongest FB in the AFL. Andrews and Taylor have it all over Weiters for height, but no one can move Weiters but Weiters seems to be able to move everyone including the hulking Hawkins.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

im not sure, but it feels like we're putting too much emphasis on height here? there aren't too many 197-200cm unicorns that are athletic and the ones who are, are highly sort after - darcy, harry etc the rest all have serious flaws to their game, much like the one we currently have - young. usually, immobility and deplorable kicking is the trademark in this height zone.

someone of the ilk of jai serong, 6'3" but runs fast, jumps high, spoils and plays man-on. there's nothing small about 6'3 when you play bigger, and you get the added bonus that he contributes when the ball is on the deck. and best of all he doesn't break the bank. there must be a half dozen of these prototypes around the league that are gettable. hawks alone have 2 or 3 key defenders who are now wayyyy down the pecking order thanks to barass and battle.

I think you're confusing KPD with 3rd Tall defender/ interceptor.

Have a guess when and why height is important in one on one contests between a KPD and a KPF?

The height vs Strength for a KPD has been explained. Young is the only one who can spoil standing next to his opponent because he has the height and reach to do so well. Weiters on the other hand moves his opponent with his superior strength. Took 7 years for Weiters to get that strong. Are any of the Hawks going to be as strong as the former No 1 Draft pick, Weiters?

There's nothing small about 6'3", I know, I'm 5'9", probably less now, but against 200cm, 193cm players are small. Its all relative.

Standing one on one and you're 193 is a problem Gov and Kemp have because they lose the opportunity to run and jump and spoil. IMO we have done this for the past 10 years and its pointless repeating this same problem with undersized KPD's. Marchbank 193 was SOS' heir apparent for KPD because he was mobile and could jump and mark, but when he's next to big KPF's like Hipwood or Daniher he was tiny; a mismatch. Same issues with previous "flavours of the month" in Kemp and Gov gave us.

Wojee was kind enough to post this in previous page. There's plenty of huge KPF's. These are just the Finalists.



and that's just the Finalists.

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Just thought a 193cm KPD with his knuckles dragging on the floor....that's different.

I'm sure he'd have no reach issues, but that's a unicorn if I ever saw one.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

But they are undeveloped kids, worth pursuing to develop under Power if gettable.

Barrass is 194cm, huge reach and a really strong seasoned player. He started off as the 3rd tall/ intercept.
He's a now fix for the Hawks. We need a now fix for the KPD...Young's spot.

Battle is 193cm and played as the Intercept defender at the Saints, not KPD

I think the Hawks have all these tall kids developing and have traded for Barrass and Battle as ready made players.

Our window is open for ready made KPD and improve our intercepting.

As for current FB in Sam Frost, whose only 194cm, this is what his coach tells us:



Looks to me Hawks are bringing in experienced heads to allow kids to develop in the VFL.

The Hawks backline is not their one wood. Port showed how to close down Hokball. Pity Port didnt have Dixon available to expose Frost for height, as would our Harry ... if we didnt long bomb everything to him.

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That's the way Bondi . Follow it up and let us know what you think . And what do you think of Nathan Cooper Bondi ? notice apart from myself a couple of good judges on here also rate Cooper . And I reckon Werribee Cpt Nick Coughlan is stiff not to be on a list . And while I'm at it Bondi how the hell is Dom Brew not on an AFL list . He kicks the bejeezus out of AFL listed players week in and week out . These questions apply to BV , ABNS , Cazz , Braithy and all the other recruiting guru's on this site .
Have a nice day Bondi .

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urghh, i dunno.

hipwood = spud
neale = spud
mcdonald = spud
marshall = spud

some strong bodied fast, athletic, strong 6'3" defender could easily wrap these potatoes (listed here) up.

a better list might be, looking at the height of all the top teams, key defenders. for introspection; the best defender tandems i've seen in the last decade are May and Lever - May 6'4 and Lever 6'3"...

After Campbell Brown's plea for Brew I have a feeling he will be drafted this year. Better than our Gibson who won 2 Listons.
Cooper is a nice prospect too. He seems to have really long arms. Must be about 196 tall.
Nick Coughlan...wasnt he the boy from the Saints. He seems a good mark...dunno.

Point is they are out there....we jusdt have to find them and use up our later tips.

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They are playing KPF for the top 6 teams....not really spuds. I respect any player who crosses the line. Those who arent good are soon dismissed. Carlton on the other hand is known to keep players in the hope they become KPDs or get over their injuries.

The May Lever is the best example from circa 2024 of shorter defenders, but its May's strength to take No 1 KPF that helps them out. Like I said its a case of strength vs height. Have to have one or the other to play KPD. Have to ask have you ever seen Lever left to defend one on one? Hopeless, Lost, anxious and very upset when he's left to fend for mimself. Every player has their achilles heel. He loves the space, to leave his man and jump for the spoil or mark.

As for looking at oppo KPD's, I have, they all have at least one very tall KPD (198-200) and one strong KPD (193-6) or 2 very talls, or even 3.

I know your argument about Footscray's unicorns playing 3 KPFs...but the fact is they exist more than you know or want me to believe. Don't worry if you think they are spuds today or unicorns. Most important thing to do in this exercise is see if they exist and what we have to counter them next year.

I think fresh young talls at Hawks are still young and developing, and may be ripe when Frost, Battle and Barrass end their careers, but at Carlton we are looking for a ready made KPD to replace Young, and one intercept mark better than Kemp and Gov. Hence Haynes. That Young improvement is key. I have faith in Young TBH, but I know 90% of Carlton supporters hate him. I have the same faith in SOS to play KPF-Ruck because TDK is our No 1 ruck, but don't know if Young and SOS are the answers TBH.

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our weakness which has been there for many many years is we are to slow ,unfortunately campo boys are good footballers but not quick ,breakaway speed that we lack so if it wasnt for surname who knows were fall in draft.

So what happened to the Campos? They were all the rage early in the season, where we were worried about what we were giving up.

Its great dont get me wrong. But I dont want some slow, skinny, weak boys coming into this team.

Why cant we get father sons like Brisbane and Collingwood for a change?

Maybe Cody, we hope.

Yes , Campbell Brown is a huge wrap for Brew . In Brown's word's , " I have never seen anyone break a Dom Brew tackle , EVER . Brew is strong as an Ox . And Brew is as tough as they come . The fact that he has had a couple of cage fights ( take note Braithy ) sort of speaks for itself . I would get him to the Blues as tackling coach if nothing else . ............... and yes Nick Coughlan was with the Saints as was Cooper with the Swans .
Now , don't forget to chase up Doherty with your Sorra mates Bondi . He got a couple of gigs with Vic Country so he must be half decent .

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Ben had a very good year so it’s interesting he’s slid down the rankings. Performed well for AFL academy against VFL opposition. Won SAs MVP for the national carnival over Sid Draper who is projected top 10. Made the AA team. Won the SANFL under 18 league BnF with 18 votes from 6 games played. The knock on him is his kicking.

Lucas maybe less of an impact but he’s the slighter more outside player. That’ll be reflected in a later draft position to Ben.

I suspect because it’s common knowledge that they’re both coming to Carlton that they get less buzz when talking about the open draft pool. Don’t think they’ll be say Daicos brothers level but better than the Brown brothers and certainly deserving of spots on AFL lists.

Also some whispers they may have been shut down early for obvious purposes but not sure how valid that is.

young is such a tease. he can string together good to very good games, and then he can play himself into the two's and off the list he so bad.

i wish he'd be consistent. the last 3 games he played this season were good. so good, that i'd rather chase houston and persist with him for another year. but cfc thinks otherwise and put him on the trade block.

can't wait for the season to end and the trade period to kick start.

cheers Great!

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my last one was rubbish